Seems like an appropriate title to kick off October - a haunted house, devil-worshipping spirit, witches, seances, ghost hunters, surly detectives, and hammy acting.
If you learn nothing else about Witchtrap, you must know this: It is NOT a sequel to Witchboard! It just has the same writer, director, actors, poster art, and villain character design. It's super-dumb, but its saving grace is that it also has: Linnea Quigley! Enjoy the episode, you chuckleheads.
Episode 231, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I'm Todd.
Craig: And I'm Craig.
Todd: After a couple of weeks of fairly heavy movies that were a, a little bit deep and a little depressing and serious, we decided to get to something totally goofy and fun. Something we knew. I would be totally goofy and fun. So this week, what we are doing is 1989's Witchtrap, which is not to be confused with which board it is definitely not a sequel to Witchboard, which, uh, it's tells you in the very, very beginning before the title credits and as plastered all over the VHS box art, even though.
Witchtrap and Witchboard are written and directed by the same guy, Kevin also happens to star a bad evil spirit with a big beard and hair that terrorizes people, and doesn't really pop into play until the very end of the movie. Oh played also by the same guy, actually, most of the people in this movie were also in which board.
Yeah, I guess we just had to make okay. Clear in case you didn't know, but the similarities between the two movies are huge and we love Kevin S Tenny. We've done a couple of his other movies. We really did enjoy a which board as I recall. And, uh, we're big fans of night of the demons. At least nine of the demons is just one of the most iconic horror movies of the late eighties in its corniness, cheesiness, and just overall fun.
Yeah. And effects. So, uh, yeah, this, this movie came out, I believe a year before night of the demons and two years after which board and then sequel to Witchboard came out later, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, these are the movies. Kevin Tenney is most famous for, even though he was making stuff up into two thousands and apparently had to step in for a character in this movie as well and put on what has to be one of the most excellent acting debuts of all.
Yeah. Oh my God. I'm pretty sure I've never seen this movie before actually. Although the box art. Always attracted me in the video store. Certainly hadn't seen it. And I think I actually had confused it with which board, because actually the box art, if you're trying to make your movie not be confused with another movie, don't make the box art look almost exactly the same.
Right. And then don't put on the box art for your other movie this time. It's not a game. Well, I don't know. I mean, taken on its own, Witchtrap apparently was never a game in the first place. But if you compare it to Witchboard which is referring to a Ouija board, then I guess he's trying to say this time, it's not a game because it's not a sequel to which board.
So anyway, uh, boy, this was quite a fun movie to watch and I'm looking forward to chatting about it, but I'm pretty sure this is the first time I'd watched it. How about you?
Craig: It's funny that you say you're pretty sure you hadn't seen it before. Cause I feel the same way. I'm not really sure. I didn't think I had, and then watching it, I don't know.
I may have. Uh, but frankly, uh, it's not particularly memorable. So if I had seen it before, I'm not really surprised that I don't remember much, if anything about it. I don't know. No. The only thing that I really knew about it was that it was made by the same. Folks as a, the people who made Witchboard, which again, was a positive in my book because I am a fan of Witchboard, but like you said, they go out of their way to let us know.
It is certainly not a sequel. And it's not though, like you said, they are strikingly similar in many ways, but. I think that which board while certainly no masterpiece is far superior this movie, you know, gosh, I'm not really sure what to say about it. The thing that, the thing that struck me most, well, there are a lot of, thanks.
I think it has some of the worst, cringiest dialogue I've ever seen in a movie. Oh
Craig: I mean, obviously I know who wrote it, but in my head I kept thinking who wrote this? These lines are so stupid and nobody would ever say these things. Secondly, the active is pretty darn bad across the board.
Todd: Everybody. There's not a good actor in this whole movie.
Craig: Now it's pretty terrible, which is compounded by the fact that somehow they screwed up the audio. They recorded the audio live as they filmed, but somehow it got screwed up. So they had to go back and re dub all the dialogue, which is painfully obvious and really only highlights how bad the acting is.
Todd: yeah. Yeah, good start. I have to say that too. The acting is wooden. I mean, this is the best example of what I would call the most wooden acting you've ever seen. Like the face has barely changed expression, and it seems like the actors are not really aware of the content of their lines as the lines are coming out of their mouth.
I was trying to chalk that up to maybe bad ADR work. Like maybe in the moment, you know, their delivery was so much better, but then when they got behind a microphone in a room, It became more wooden, but I don't think so. I just, I just don't think anybody was able to carry it. And also I didn't at first notice the dialogue was not quite matching up with their lips because for having to do the whole movie and for being here low budget production, as it is, it's probably better than I would ever do.
You know, trying to match dialogue to lifts, but the problem is, is that uncanny Valley area
Todd: enough off that it's. Almost distracting through the entire movie, as opposed to the Italian movies that we watch, where they're kind of so far off that you get used to it and you don't even care. Uh, yeah. But yeah, it, it that's the least of this film's problems.
I thought that the dialogue. There were moments in which I thought, you know, this dialogue probably sounded extremely clever on paper because it is filled to the brim with water supposed to be jokes, but the jokes are corny as hell. And maybe if they were delivered in a more natural way, at least half of them would have come off.
But because the acting behind it is just so wooded, none of it comes off. And some of it's really. Cringy, like they're racist, racist jokes in there and weird stuff that people are saying to each other. Like, people don't talk like this.
Craig: No. Right. And that's the thing, like, I felt like they were supposed to be jokes too, but they felt so flat.
Like you say, maybe if they had been delivered more naturally, I almost feel like they needed to ham it up a little bit more. Like, I almost felt like they were taking themselves very seriously. Delivering these silly, silly lines. And this has happened several times with movies that we've watched. I found myself thinking, was this supposed to be a horror comedy?
Because they were especially with the main character, Tony, who is this detective, like pretty much everything he says is a Quip, but. He delivers it with a straight face and it just falls completely, totally flat. Like I wanted to laugh. Add it or with it, but in the context, it's really not funny. Like I agree.
I really didn't laugh out loud at all. I recognized that the things that they were saying were ridiculous, but it seems so written like a. At one point, Tony calls people a bunch of chuckleheads and, uh, he refers to another guy as a walking hard-on with feet. Like nobody says that nobody says any of these things,
Todd: especially some of the dialogue between the cops, which I think is supposed to sound like hard-edged ribbing.
But also the, um, well, I mean, what the one cop, his name is Tony Vincente and he's got a partner named Levi who is African American. And that needs to be said because it's pointed out multiple times in the movie when people make. Black jokes that are really stretching the boundaries of taste, even in the eighties, I think.
And then their boss is Murphy and this is like a private detective from, and Tony, apparently we hear later on in the film was the, the best of the best apparently out of the police Academy was a great detective on the LA force, but had some trouble with a particular case. And now he's been hired by this guy instead, and he's out of the force.
Craig: Yeah. Supposedly like, he's this great detective, but he's such a wise guy that they,
Todd: right. Yeah. This guy you could have kept him on the forest. You just would've wanted him like, you know, cleaning the bathrooms and stuff.
Craig: Well, he's just, he's deliberately difficult. Like he's just crusty to everybody. Oh, like he doesn't like anybody.
He thinks everybody's stupid. He's just got like a huge chip on his shoulder. And he's supposed to be the hero of the movie, which he is, I guess, but he's not likable, which is unfortunate because he's played by a guy named James Quinn, who I really don't know from anything else except Witchboard. And he was my favorite character in Witchboard
Todd: he was great.
Craig: Yeah, he was the funny chummy friend of the main guy who. Got killed. And in that movie, when he got killed, I was bummed cause he was my favorite character and he got killed off really early and he was just really likable and endearing in that movie. And then here, it's just totally different. I get it.
He's playing two different characters, so I get it. Um, but uh, I don't know.
Todd: He might be a little out of his league with this one. I'm afraid.
Craig: Well, I just think it's bad. I just think it's badly written and like, what are you going to do?
Todd: What are you going to do with this?
Craig: I suppose that we should mention the premise, right?
Todd: Yeah. Why not?
Craig: The premise of the movie is that there's this old house and that's where it opens up. And, um, The style of shooting in the opening scene is so similar to Witchboard with these like ghosty POV shots and weird like growling and noises kind of behind the shots. And there's this goofy looking guy in this who's just immediately scared and we don't know what he's scared of.
And, but apparently he's so scared that he either jumps or is supernaturally. Pushed out of a second story, window falls out, then proceeds to bleed. A pool of blood
Craig: seconds, three seconds. So much blood comes gushing out of this guy. It was like he was a water balloon that popped it.
Todd: That's true. He could have been swimming in it if he wasn't dead right
during all of the POV shots in this house, as we're zooming around, we get a lot of this creepy imagery inside the house. Everything looks semi say tannic and old and weird, and there's a. Picture frame on the wall that inside of it over the fireplace is this guy who looks exactly like, what was his name from Witchboard?
A fader. Yeah. I mean, it's like they use the same makeup and
Craig: the same.
Todd: Yeah. Again, if you're trying not to make your movie sequel, to Witchboard, why in the world are you making so many similarities?
Craig: And honestly, I know you've already said it, but I just want to reiterate, like, if you. Are interested if you've seen either of these movies really like just go online and look up the box art.
They are virtually identical, the box art for these two movies. Um, the only difference, really the only notable difference is that on the Witchtrap box art, there's a little tiny like Polaroid of Linnea Quigley, who is. And this and thank goodness. Cause she was the pretty much the only part of it that I did.
Todd: Right. Well, once that happens, a guy named Felix gets a phone call and he's basically like, Oh, you're calling us in. Okay. And he calls out to Agnes, which is his wife. Agnes and Felix were both also in Witchboard, and we get our first boob shots of the movie. It's actually pretty impressive. I wasn't boobs, you know, four minutes into the film, but Agnes for no really good reason is just laying in the tub when they get the call.
And it turns out that Felix and Agnes must run, go to Ghostbusters outfit more or less. She's. Claims she's psychic and Felix claims he's a psychic and then they have a couple other people along with them, uh, who are now. He, she kind of has to recruit the other woman. Uh, she has this conversation with a red head named Whitney who's out jogging, and it's such an awkward scene where Whitney's out jogging in the park.
Suddenly Agnes comes out almost like she was behind a tree or something, and just starts walking towards Whitney and running alongside her Whitney. You have a gift. Do you mean a curse? I mean a gift. And if you believe God gave it to you, you must believe he wants you to use it. Ooh, that's a cheap shot. I miss, especially coming from you.
Why? Because I'm an atheist. It scares me. You understand? I can't control it, but I can. I hope so for everyone's sake.
Craig: And then she runs away and then in the very next scene, she's there like. I guess she changed her mind. I, I have no idea.
Todd: It made no sense anyway, whatever it didn't take a whole lot of convincing for Agnes to bring Whitney into this team, which apparently Whitney was a key element of this team as it turns out because her husband is a medium who can channel.
What did he say?
Craig: He's a mental medium and she's a physical medium. I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
Todd: It's like he can channel the speech or whatever of the ghost, and then the physical medium can actually, the ghost can work through the physical medium to do physical stuff in the world or whatever.
And then Agnes is just along for the ride, I guess, with their videographer, the videographer Linnea Quigley. So super happy to see her in this movie. She wasn't in it nearly long enough, nor was she given enough time?
Craig: No, and it's so sad because she is the old, like, she's the only one with any kind of charisma.
Yes. First, you know, when she appears and this, you know, is par for the course for her career, but the, the first. Thing that you see of her is just the camera. Does this leering shot from her feet all the way up her backside. So like, that's like, hello, here's our sexy one. And she is, she looks great in this movie, but she's really just there to kind of be the sex pot, which would be fine if she were given more to do, but she's not, she literally, probably, we only adds like three lines, uh, in the middle, which is unfortunate.
So yeah. So there there's that. I don't want to get ahead of myself. So there there's that group. And then the guy Devin Lauder, who has played, as you said by the director, and he should stick to directing for sure. He owns this house. He inherited it from, uh, an uncle or something. And I guess there was a clause in the will that he couldn't sell it and he couldn't tear it down.
That's a weird clause, but I, and he says, so his only other option would be to allow the County to absorb it or whatever, which apparently they want to do because it's low located right next to this cemetery. And they want, you know, they would want to expand the cemetery or something. I don't know. He gives it's a whole big, long spiel.
Right? But he says that, um, the reason that he, he tried to rent it out in the past, but nobody's ever stayed for more than a couple of days. Cause it's haunted by his uncle and he knows cause he's been there and he's seen it and he's experienced it, but he saw some news. These other bed and breakfasts were claiming to be haunted and they were getting a lot of.
Publicity and business. So he decided that he is going to, he's already renovated it into a bed and breakfast. He wants to say that it's haunted to bring people in, but. He doesn't want it to really be haunted because he sent in some guy. And this is the guy that we saw get killed. The amazing Asimov.
Todd: Like, no, I don't know
Craig: why the amazing as a mom.
Todd: For publicity,
Craig: publicity, I guess. I don't know, um, that he sent them and he died. So now he's brought this team in to exercise the house. The stipulation is they have to take this group of cops with them, security for liability reasons or whatever. Right. And that's it. So even though. The cops don't want to go.
And the people don't want the cops to go it's all or nothing. And so they all ended up going and then we spend the rest of the movie in the house
Todd: and Tony really doesn't want to go because there's a, there's a scene between Murphy and Tony. That goes on way too long. And Murphy is like,
Craig: And you've got to play some of this dialogue.
It's so terrible. Like the case.
Craig: this is not the case. This is a joke. Look,
Todd: you want us to go up there and
Craig: babysit this great age group of chuckleheads while they
Todd: sit around in a circle, hold hands and talk to the ticket people. What makes you so sure. The chocolate heads, maybe this house really is no.
Well, yeah. And maybe your parents aren't really first cousins either. Berkeley. I wouldn't lay eyes on it. Cause see. If you're not a direct product of inbreeding, then there really is a God. And he's got a personal grudge against you. It's supposed to be. And again, you've see this in movies, like they're movies that do this well, lethal weapon, you know, does this well where you've got these two cops who kind of are supposed to hate each other, but deep down inside, they have an affection for each other, but they still can't stand each other's guts.
So they spend the whole time ribbing each other and write on each other's last nerve. It does not come across at all in this movie. It's just a series of really lame one on one liners. These people spit at each other and Murphy pretends to be upset by it. But none of this is convincing. In fact, you kind of wonder why Tony doesn't.
It has such a problem going into this house. He, he, he thinks it's a joke. So I don't know why not just stay there at night and collect the paycheck. You know, it's a little silly, the whole idea that there is this tension between them. It's just to add something to the movie, but you're a beard, which is flat as my ex wife's chest.
Craig: No, it's awful. Oh
Todd: man. So anyway, so there's that that's been established, they all show up at the house. It seems like Levi. Which I've got to point out pretty much every scene with Levi in it at some point or another ends up with some wise cracks towards him that are racial. I love it. When Murphy talks like a detective novel.
Yes. Sam spade lives never say spade to a brother. Sorry. All the ghost talk was hammy spooked. Very funny. And some of these are terrible and I mean, he'll spit it back like a. I'm going
Craig: to find that overgrown abortion and give him a 38 caliber enema. You're
Todd: going to do what I say. I'm going to kick you a black ass down those stairs.
Try it. And I'll tap dance across your face. Like Bojangles Robinson, even. That's just all of it's just cringy. And it happens several times in this one,
Craig: even the introduction of the character. And, you know, I, I, I don't want to be overly critical because I understand that it was a different time and we're much more sensitive about race and the portrayal of, you know, different races and cultures and whatnot, but just this guy's introduction, like he comes in strutting down the hall.
Like shaft, like they may have, well, may as well have just put him in like a floor length, fur coat and like add, it feels so intentional. Like here's our black guy.
Todd: It's true. It's true.
Craig: It just, it reads really poorly. Today.
Todd: And also he ends up being the one who leering all over Linnea Quigley. And I don't know.
I mean, I guess it could have been any one of them and I'm not saying that it was like, Ooh, let's make it the black guy, but that's also a little cringey when you kind of add everything together. Yeah. But anyway, when they show up with the house, you know, he's kinda hanging on her a little bit or hanging back with her and she's like, Hey, you know, I need some help getting some stuff from the van.
He was like, Oh, I'll go. I'll go. They have a little, you know, back and forth.
Craig: I feel like as they're walking out the door, they bump into the, one of the final characters we meet, who is like the groundskeeper named Elwin. And he's like this big oafish simpleton who is made out to be threatening and menacing from the beginning.
And I thought, surely. This is a mislead, like surely Elwin is not just going to be this oafish, you know, bad guy, but no, he is. It's just like the flat characterization ever. Like he's the groundskeeper, but also he was like the stage manager for the. Uncle who lived in the house, uncle Avery, who was also like a psychic and did an illusionist or something.
Todd: And, and to Satan worshiper, by the way,
Craig: say worshiper. And what happened apparently was they found his. Okay, well, so there's like a satanic alter in the attic that they find right away. And apparently Avery's body was found draped over it dissembled and his heart was missing and Agnes tells the story and she's like, I think that they caught him right in the middle of a city tannic ritual, where he was trying to make himself immortal, but he wasn't able to finish it, but.
They never found his heart. It's also silly. Like apparently through, you know, by them being there, it gives him the opportunity to, because there's a physical, because there's a physical medium, like I'm literally sitting here rubbing my head cause it's also convoluted. Mmm. Because they're there. He can try again.
Todd: Okay. That's right. And Agnes and Whitney, no way too much. About this guy and what happened in this house? Like they know stuff that you would just have to infer or guess about. They just found this guy murdered. Supposedly nobody knew what it was all about, but I don't know how these two know all of this detail, but maybe it's just because they're experts in the fields.
So they see things, nobody else does.
Craig: Yeah. They immediately, they immediately do what they call a sitting. I don't know why they call it that I say it's a
Todd: safe zone.
Craig: Right. You sit there and, you know, look at each other or whatever, and Agnes leads it and she's like, I'm talking to the spirit of. Avery, whatever his name was.
And, um, I have a mental medium here and a physical medium here, and she says, you can speak to us through the mental medium, which he immediately, the spirit immediately enters Felix's body, um, and speaks to them in his ghosty voice. And this spirit is supposed to be really scary and yeah. Dangerous and threatening, but when he talks through the guy, even though he's got kind of this menacing voice, it's almost like they, like, they caught him right after a nap.
Like, like, what are you doing here? We're here to talk to you. Oh, Well, I'm going to destroy your soul.
Todd: Who are you? I am here to free you from this house. I do not wish to be free. Then I would force you. We're not strong enough. I believe I am. I will rise like the Phoenix and destroy you. All of you.
And I love, I love the way that Agnes puts it. She's cause she's doing it for us. She's saying why we have a mental medium here who you can speak through. And then later you can, you know, channel through our physical medium over here and he goes, Maybe later
Craig: and before it is funny. And before they had sat down, she had given Whitney this like contraption, it looks like a. And it's just a little black box with flashing lights on it.
Todd: It looks like an answering machine.
Craig: It kinda, and Whitney sets it on her lap and they talk to the spirit. She says, show us your power through Whitney.
And he's like maybe later. And then Felix convulses. And as the spirit exits him, I suppose. And he's like right after he's like, I sent something important in the basement.
So they go down to the basement and they're like looking around and they're like, I wish I knew what I was looking for. And somebody says, well, we'll know it when we find it. And eventually Felix is like, here it is. I found it. And there's a pentagram. It's not even like a full pentagram. It's just a star on the wall.
He's like, this is important for some reason. And then they just leave that alone. Yeah.
Todd: Zooms in ominously on the star. And then. Okay, next scene. We're all upstairs.
Craig: It's important for us to know it's important for later, but we don't need to worry about it right now.
Todd: We got a lot more movie to go before.
We're going to come back to this. All right. Folks.
So they do they're exploring, and this is a bit, I didn't understand either when they're in the living room, when they first got in a Whitney who. By the way they cast this woman with these piercings kind of bright green eyes, again, you know, for this, for this role. And at least for that, she was really good.
And she was just, just on edge the whole time. Right. You just felt like she was completely uncomfortable and freaked out by even being there. I don't know why she didn't leave the house days ago. I, I don't know why she sticks around. Yeah. But anyway, she kind of flips out and she goes, Oh, there's something behind those curtains over there.
And the cop goes over there and he moves the curtain, the side, it says, yeah, the windows filthy back here and they all look back at her and they're all like, Oh, so I thought we were trying to establish that she's maybe a little unreliable or that I don't know what was, what the point of that little episode was.
Cause it was really played up, but she ends up being the person in this whole movie where this guy's channeling through and anytime something happens. Uh, in the house or to any of these characters, she just goes into these crazy convulsions to show that, you know, he's channeling through her. So she goes upstairs with, um, with Tony and that's where they find the alter.
And that's where she gives more of the backstory and they have this weird conversation about God and.
Craig: It's so, yes. And it's just too much, like, I don't know I was reading reviews or something somewhere, and one of the reviews said like all it's pandering about God and good evil, and it just doesn't fit in this movie.
Like this is a silly, dumb movie and it's like, they try to get. Philosophical for a while. And it just comes across as you just want to let your jaw the roll out of your mouth. Like, uh,
Todd: well, they're clearly trying a to get this philosophical thing, which is not a theme that carries through, so you're right.
It doesn't even thematically work. In the movie. I mean, it's not just that it falls flat. It's like they don't even really commit to it. And then the second thing is, is that you get the sense that they're trying to, stablish some kind of relationship between these two characters, like for a little bit, Tony's a little exposed here and he's actually willing to talk about his philosophy, which is angry.
You know, he's just like I've seen rapes and I've seen murders and. You know, 12 year old prostitutes on crack and blah, blah, blah. So there's clearly, no, God. And then she's basically, Oh, I feel sorry for you, but you're going to find out soon enough, you know, the Satan and God are real, blah, blah, blah. I mean, that's kind of the essence boil down what they're talking about and then that crops up a little later in the movie, but yeah, it's not really significant.
It's just another conversation they have. And you feel like there were working towards some kind of redemption for him. Like he's finally going to believe he's finally going to see thing. Any kind of does, but he kind of doesn't you just, they were trying, but then they just didn't really bother to see that through.
Craig: that's the movie. Yeah. It falls flat. I think you're right. I think that's what they were trying to do. I think that it was supposed to be a Tory for him at the end and Oh, good. And evil do exist. And, but it just doesn't read like.
Todd: And with unconvincing characters, you know, you're going to get everything else is kind of unconvincing too.
Right. So, uh, so I probably, probably that's it.
Craig: I had mentioned that box before, uh, what's his name? Tony asks Agnes about it and she's like, Oh, it's an invention of mine, basically. It's just a go it's a Ghostbusters ghost trap, basically. Okay. Like it, it, she, she gives this big explanation about how ghosts are literally the souls of people that haven't passed on.
And, um, with this contraption, somehow through Whitney and this contraption, she can trap the ghost in this little box and then take it out of the house. So hence the title, Witchtrap that's what her invention is. Yeah. So I suppose that's their goal, but once they have that initial seance and then they kind of go off looking around for a little bit Linea quickly, I just call her that gender.
Um, and Levi go out to the car for something. And I think my favorite line of. The movie. No, really,
Todd: even though you can't see them with the naked eye, sometimes the camera will pick them up and put them on tape.
Todd: scratch my ass.
Craig: Not until I know you better.
One of her only lines and she says, it's so flirty and I just love her.
Todd: She's great.
Craig: Then we kind of start getting into, I guess, the, the horror, because like you said, Whitney is alone in her room and she starts convulsing. Meanwhile, Linnea, Quigley. Is taking a shower because she's Lenay quickly and she's in a movie and that's what she do.
Todd: Yes. And once again, like Linnea Quigley in a movie it's full frontal. Oh
Craig: yeah. Oh yeah. Head to toe full frontal. And, you know, we talked to her about that and she's comfortable with nudity and good for her and she looks great. And so she's a, in the shower, Whitney's convulsing on her bed and the water goes off and she's like, what?
And she's like, she's. Like poking at the shower, head and looking up in it. Um, and then just out of nowhere in a split second, get the shower, head shoots out of the wall, directly into her neck, like stabs her in the neck and then pulls back in and she's dead. And I was so bombed that she was forced to go.
I mean, I guess it should have been predictable, but I would've, I would've so liked to have seen more of hers. I think that she could have brought a lot more life. And levity to the movie that was needed.
Todd: And, and I mean, this is one of the more creative kills I've seen in a movie. I don't think I've ever seen the shower head, just sort of extend like that pipe extends out of the wall and shoots into her neck and then pulls back.
It's very supernatural. Cause something like that could never actually happen. But then. You know, later on when the girls are talking about it. Well, they, they, they what's her name's convulsing. And so there's that, there's also two times division screens downstairs because these video cameras that they set up for the sitting are still running.
And so we see on these television screens, a very ghostly Avery walking up towards. His urn of ashes on the mantle of the fireplace, but then that goes, trap thing is next to it. So he cringes back in terror and walks away
Craig: and he does that two or three times, like it's so dumb.
Todd: It took me a while to realize what was going on here.
Cause later on those ashes disappear. And so I guess the ghost was trying to get the ashes, but that ghost trap being positioned where it was. Was keeping him away from it. It wasn't until the movie was over that I put all that together. So that happens. But then once they kind of comfort a Whitney, then, uh, they realized where's, uh, where's ginger.
And then somebody says, Oh, ginger was upstairs taking a shower. And so they run upstairs and the cops opened the door and see her body in there. Oh. And, and run out. So there. Now they're arguing, what are they going to do?
Craig: And they, they, they think that Elwin killed her because Levi had caught Elwin peeping at one of the other ladies.
So they think it was him. But the thing that bothered me about this scene was they find her dead. And like in this happens in horror movies, but it always bothers me.
Craig: they just leave her there and they're not particularly upset or concerned. Yes. Like
Todd: even later. The two girls are like discussing and they're like, man, can you imagine?
I mean, what happened to ginger? How did she die? Do you really think that guy could have done it? I mean, he would just go in there and stab her and the other girl's like, well, maybe he raped her before that. She was like, Oh yeah, maybe he did rape her. Like what?
Craig: Like this now,
Todd: I mean, this is. This is how bad the dialogue is in this movie.
It's just, it's just
Craig: loud. I know. And it's so silly. Like Whitney somehow. No, not Whitney. I keep getting them mixed up. Agnes somehow convinces them to stay, which is also stupid.
Todd: So convoluted. And it's all about making Murphy, you know? Oh, well, what happens if I call and say that, you know, the reason that she's dead is because the security was so bad on our thing.
Murphy's are we going to let that happen normal? Or we won't call anybody.
Craig: Right. So they send like Levi for the police. I don't remember, which happens first. Um, when Levi goes, like he drives out to the gate, but the gate is locked. And so he's standing in front of the gate and then Whitney has another one of her seizures and the car comes to life and like first pins him against the gate and then backs up and then he falls down and it runs him over and he's dead, but they don't know that.
So they're all just still hanging out in the house. And at one point, Felix and Whitney are having a conversation and I have to say that they are both just insufferable. Like they're absolutely awful. Um, they're terrible. Terrible actors is specially. Rob's Apple who plays Felix. I really want to believe for his sake that it was just so poorly written and directed that it wasn't a true reflection of his abilities.
Cause if it was who boy, but. They have a conversation and he's like, Oh, you know, when somebody dies, it makes it real. And she's like, well, people die all the time. And he's like, yeah, but it's different if it's somebody, you know, and she's like, well, Felix, we barely knew her.
We only worked with her one other time, so it's not like we really knew her anyway.
Craig: Yeah. Okay. I guess
Todd: this actually was the only moment in the movie when I did laugh out loud. Why would Elwin kill ginger? I don't know. She was naked in the shower. Maybe he raped her first, probably. So it just seems so senseless. Name me a killing that isn't senseless, I suppose. But it has more of an impact when it's someone, you know, personally, we didn't really know ginger all that.
Well, dear, we only worked with her that one time at the stone mansion. Oh God. So anyway, they do that. And then, so there's the casual rape talk about ginger and, uh, the long conversation about Agnes, his motivations, like you said, and this is when we learn that Agnes is really hoping to get like a book deal out of this, or really boost up her.
Presence in their business or whatever. So she's like, if I can finally. Finally catch a ghost, then this is my biggest shot ever had. So that's why she's so obsessive about everybody staying and seeing this through. And then, um, Whitney convulses, again, this year, this kill comes completely out of nowhere.
It feels, it was just like, Oh yeah, we gotta do something about Murphy. So let's kill him off. Whitney just starts. Like we switched from all these scenes, which are interconnected to Whitney convulsing again, and Murphy cleaning his gun. And a bullet rises out of an, a box of ammo and goes straight into Murphy's forehead and shoots him, which actually I thought was kind of a cool kill again, not something I've think I've seen in any other movies where just a bullet flies through the air, just propelled by a ghost and that, and this.
Kill scene. And also Levi's kill scene had to be cut short a little bit because the movie would have gotten an X rating. So we'd never actually see the car rolling over Levi's head, which is apparently a deleted scene. And we don't see. Like a closeup of, of Murphy's brains getting blown out. And the funny thing is Murphy gets killed and I don't think, does anybody ever discover the body or notice that Murphy is missing?
Craig: Yes. Uh, because they, Agnes walks in on Whitney having her seizure and she's like, Oh no, he got to you behind our backs. Um, and he was working through you behind our backs. Like when you were alone, he waited until you were alone and then he got to you. And so they know that he. Could have done something.
So then they go looking around and they find the dead guy and Tony says no, and a ghost didn't kill him. He got shot. It must have been Elwin. They just keep blaming everything on Elwin. And is that the point when Tony like runs now they're actually going to leave, right?
Todd: Yeah. But Tony goes to the basement.
I think it's around the same time. Isn't it? Maybe it's concurrent with this bullet in the head thing. Where he is in the basement for some reason. And he's looking around and a knife flies off the wall and pins him to a pillar just through his clothes. It doesn't actually hit him because I think it's at the moment that Agnes wakes up.
Whitney, uh, that, that knife is kind of midair. So it's, it's a little off, but then for some reason, Elwood is actually down there in the basement too. And he attacks Tony again for no good reason, except he's like, you guys are going to get out of here. It's, you know, you're all gonna die and blah, blah, blah.
Craig: Yeah, he will rise again.
Todd: They have the worst fight scene. It's just like punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, fallback, punch some more. It's really. I mean, it's not thrilling and then Elwin kind of escapes. Right. He just runs out the door or something.
Craig: Yeah. Yeah. And so then when they decide to leave and it's especially important that they get Whitney out of there.
Because she apparently is the key to this ritual. And without her she's removed from the equation, then the ghost is powerless. So it's important that she get out of there. So Tony goes to get the car or the van or whatever.
Todd: There's a van there for S yeah, it's the van that they brought.
Craig: I just, I I'm, I'm getting, they get, uh, Whitney out.
Tony gets Whitney out. Somehow. I think that Elwin. Shoots the van and blows it up. But somehow they get her out in the car and they get the gate open and he sends her off and he also kills Elwin when he has to shoot L one like 15 times. Before the guy actually goes down
Todd: execution style in the head.
Craig: Oh, and what does he say?
Oh, he holds the gun up to his head and says, Oh, come on. Yeah, that reference was dated even in the eighties, like, Ugh. Oh, and Felix got shot. El one shot, Felix, it's stupid. Like the Felix here's, the van exploded and he comes out and he's like,
Todd: Tony told him what's going on.
Craig: And then he gets shot. And then while Tony's off getting Whitney out of there, um, Felix is like, I think we should do another sitting
Todd: right as he's bleeding.
Craig: Oh, and my, another of my favorite lines is when they get back inside, when Tony gets the shot, Felix, back inside, Agnes says,
Todd: you won't get it.
Craig: are the line. Oh my gosh.
Todd: But then comes something. I was totally not expecting. They do their little sitting. And Angus was like, all right. If you think we need to do a sitting, let's do a sitting. And Felix wakes up and he channels immediately the bad guy and the camera's close up on Felix face.
And then he goes, and then head explodes. Yes, it was beautiful. But that completely, Oh God, I was not expecting that.
Craig: It was, it was hilarious. I don't know if you remember. Um, Agnes antagonized him about something I don't like
Todd: at this point, he's completely off the rails. It's like they've broken their own rules.
Like this guy can make this dude's head explode. Where did that come from? It's it's not like Whitney was convulsing or anything at the time this was happening.
Craig: Right. Supposedly she's not even there. Like, and so she's driving down the highway and she sees the bad guy in the middle of the road. And like, she's going to try to run him down, even though he's a ghost.
What, but instead, right before she is about to strike him, he disappears and there's a semi coming right at her. So she drives off the road.
Todd: But, but look at this, this doesn't even make sense. Why would he be trying to kill her? She's one of his keys to getting into the world and affecting the world. So why would he even try it, be trying to get her into a head on with the,
Craig: it makes even less sense when she arrives at the police station and she goes to run in the door and she actually, we then go.
As she's running up to the police station, we return to Tony and Whitney at the house. And Tony goes to open the door, like to the outside of the house. And Whitney comes running in and she was like, Oh my God, it was a trick. I never even left the grounds. Then what was all that nonsense on the highway about like,
Todd: yeah, I mean, it was a cool idea, but it was not.
Executed well, so they're there. And for some reason, is it Agnes who says, we know always during, when they're channeling the bad guy for the last time she says to him, we know where your heart is, and I don't know what point they figured that out. It's never really explained to us, but I mean, we all knew Doug it's behind the pentagram in the basement.
Like it's the only mysterious part of this, of this building. You haven't checked out. So they're down there and Agnus is like, we've got it. We've got to get his heart. She says, we've got to prevent him from reuniting his heart with his body because that will bring him back to life or something. And the urn has gone missing with his ashes in it, which presumably the ghost has taken.
So they have to find the heart and I guess, or something
Craig: or something, I don't know.
Todd: Yeah. Really clear. They just know they need to get the hearts. So the ghost doesn't get the heart. And she has figured out at some point, which we don't really know that the heart is behind this thing. So they get a little chisel out and they bang out the rock.
Behind the pentagram and sure enough, they pull out a box, you know, with satanic signs all over it and the lock on it, it looks like the box out of snow white, to be honest with you, it's, it's kind of cute. And, and they pull that out and they just say, Oh, as hard as in here, they don't, they don't open it up.
And I'll look in, I really wanted to see. What a dead guy's heart would have looked like in this box, but we never get that opportunity. And then from here, Agnes, like all hell breaks loose in the Bay. I think Whitney goes into her convulsions again, and an ax flies through the air goes right into Agnes head.
So Agnes is dead and then the same act starts flying through the air towards. Tony, but they have that box down there, which they had brought the witch trap, the wishy app, and he holds it up and suddenly it's like a cartoon like that, that, that acts goes and stops like floating in front of him and drops down.
And instead of, I guess, because the ghost got too close to the which trap, uh, it starts sucking it in with this. It's a fact of the, of smoke going into this, which trap. So they set the witch trap down, but immediately Whitney says, uh, I can sense that that's not going to hold him. He's really, really pissed off in there and he's going to get out soon.
We got to find a way to, to, to, to kill him for good. Good. We have to get that earned. You know, with his ashes in it. And they've been talking about finding this the whole.
Craig: Yeah. And they're like, well, we don't know where it is. And uh, Whitney's like, well, you're a detective figure it out.
And so, and so then he sits in thinks real hard. He goes, if I were an urn full of ashes, where would I be?
Todd: And then.
Craig: And then they look at each other and both say at the same time, The altar.
Todd: So they go up to the attic to the alter and I don't know, is she had like some kind of trance or something. Do you just walk
Craig: toward the
Todd: culture? Like they know what,
Craig: yeah. But they get up there and, and, and they're, they they're like, Oh, like the house is shaking and we can see the witch trap, like shaking and smoking.
And then they're like, Oh, it's not here.
Then the bad guy busts out of the witch trap. And then I think once he busts out, he possesses her,
Todd: right? Yup. Yup. He possesses her. He goes into her and she walks towards the alter. And pushes a little panel on the front where the pentagram is, and that falls open and reaches in and pulls out the urn and closes it up.
And then she turns around and drinks the ashes down, which then there's this really long scene where Tony's like, Oh, Uh, Whitney. Whitney. Are you okay? Whitney? Whitney. Are you okay? Walking slowly towards her while her back is entirely to him motionless, not saying a word. And when he turns her around, of course she is now this guy, the bad guy.
Craig: Physically, like she's turned into him
Todd: and it's this same guy. It's the same guy that we've seen in the photographs is the same guy from Witchboard. And he's like, ah, standing there in front of Tony.
Craig: Yeah. I mean, it's silly. It's I guess the final showdown, Tony shoots him a bunch of times. Of course, that doesn't work, I guess, because even though he's a mortal now, so, um, the bullets, I guess, just like they don't even.
Have any physical effect on him at all? Like they just go through them and hit whatever's behind him and they fight for a while all, and it's all very silly. And like the bad guy like holds him up. In the air and is, you know, I don't know, saying menacing things or whatever. Um, but finally I guess Tony breaks free and I don't know, he says something
Todd: stupid when he really is all, it's just one of those things.
Craig: Yeah. And so he, and he shoots the heart box. It starts to bleed and the bad guy, Avery. Starts to bleed also. And he shoots it several times and eventually, somehow it ends up this isn't like fly out the window or
Todd: something. Yeah. I don't remember. How does Tony throw it out the window or something? I'm not sure actually how that,
Craig: I don't know, but it lands on the ground and explodes and there's blood everywhere.
Um, and then Avery like burns slash melts and the effects here were. Pretty good, but they lingered on it with way too long. Like it went on for a really long time and it, you know, it was just melting wax off of some sort of form. But finally, when it's all melted away, all that's left is like a skeleton.
And then. These, you know, woman hands that came from her, I don't know where reach up, pull the skull plates off Whitney's face and it's Whitney underneath and she's fine. That's really the end. But then they do this stupid end cap. It's Tony, it's dumb.
Todd: What is it? I mean, what is, what is this supposed to mean?
Craig: I think it's supposed to, to suggest that he now runs his own PI firm. And people are calling him for paranormal jobs, but he's not interested in. Um, and then he has, well, we see the bad guy, Avery doing something, I don't know, just like approaching the camera or something back at the house. And then Tony like wakes up with a start.
Like he was just dreaming that. And then that's the end. It cuts to black and the credits roll. I don't know. It's a really, really stupid end cap
Todd: or trying to set it up with it for a sequel or if this was just because as soon as the scene started, I'm like, Oh God, this movies. Not done yet. Like it should be done by now.
And he has that right. Really long conversation with that woman on the phone, telling us about how miserable he is now and about how naive people are. It goes tunings, not all it's cracked up to be, and he hangs it up and then he has that jump scare and then he wakes up and then there's a good. Five or eight seconds of just him startled afterwards, staring off into space.
Shit. Yeah. I don't know what it's supposed to mean. I really don't. I mean, again, again, it wasn't like a, even if you were to look at this theme of him getting his redemption and learning about God and Satan and it's all real. It doesn't even make sense in the context of that. He's just sitting there like super depressed.
So yeah. I don't know. Yeah. What a movie, right? It was interesting. I mean, this is the movie you make fun of. This is exactly the movement. Yeah. And it's a shame it's so weird coming from this director. Like, I mean, I'm not saying he's the best director in the world, but none of the demons was a corny movie, but it was a fun movie.
Craig: Oh, super fun.
Todd: Full of energy. Facts and just off the wall, I mean, just a blast from beginning to end it also a bit of a comedy, right? I mean, it knew what it was. It was, it was so good. Witchboard we laughed at that too, but it had heart and it was fun and the characters were interesting
Craig: and the acting was, yeah, it was okay.
Todd: But this is like, The complete opposite. It's just horrible. Every bit of it is just dumb,
Craig: really, really bad.
Todd: The acting is bad. The Mo the film is so convoluted and it's just, it's like, I don't know, it feels like a tax write off movie that somebody had to throw together, you know? And just so dumb. Huh? So what a shame, but it was, again, the movie you make fun of.
You get together with friends, you make fun of it. I think this is perfect. Perfect for that. And on that level, just the sheer inanity of this film, it was enjoyable on that level. For me. I can't recommend it. But if you're in the mood for doing that, then I'd recommend it.
Craig: It's almost, I wish that it hadn't taken itself so seriously.
I think if they had leaned into the corniness a little bit more, it would have been more fun. But yeah, I mean, if. If, if you're looking for something stupid and mindless and, and really something to watch for the purpose of goofing on it. Great. Otherwise I would say
Craig: not a good movie. It's a bad movie.
And I guess what I was trying to get at just a second ago was it's just not quite so bad. It's good. Um, it's just, yeah. Bad.
I'm glad we watched it. Cause I was looking forward to talking about how bad it is, but that's kind of the only reason that you would want to watch it.
Todd: It's the only redeeming quality. Somehow this movie made it out to the public and somehow is making money from people like us actually watching it again.
I get the figure. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find our Facebook page. You can find our website and just search two guys in a chainsaw. And to leave us a comment, let's let us know what you thought of this movie, and also give us some requests for films that you would like to see us review in the future until next time.
I'm Todd and I'm Craig with two guys and a the chainsaw.