The Wicker Man (2006)

Episode 336, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we cap off our, uh, month of remakes with a movie that we tease. We teased at a, a last episode. We said, uh, this is probably one of the most notorious remakes. We had a few guesses actually come through, but, uh, nobody 

Craig: guessed, oh, wait, before you say, I didn’t see that.

Who, what were the. 

Todd: Oh, somebody guessed. Uh, I’m sorry. There was one guest that came through and that was the Nightmare in Elm Street remake. Oh, yeah. 

Craig: That’s terrible. Which is 

Todd: also terrible. Notoriously bad, right? . Yeah. And I haven’t even seen 

Craig: it. Oh, don’t, it don’t. It’s awful. I, when we talked about doing this month, that was one of the ones I’m like, I don’t want to do it.

Todd: I’m can’t imagine. Well, this movie, as soon as I heard it had come out, and this was, uh, almost 20 years ago, well, 15 years ago, I was a completely unenthusiastic about it because it was a remake of one of my all time favorite movies and one that we’ve done before on this podcast. And that is, uh, the 2006 version of The Wicker Man.

Yeah. Starring Nicholas Cage, Uhhuh , and directed by Neil Lab. This movie gets no love. It has been mocked in memes and videos and things ever since it came out. It has kind of gone, gone down, not just as a bad remake, but just as a bad movie. Yeah. And early when we were talking about remakes, you know, and remember you asked me, what do you think about remakes?

And we were both pretty kind to the idea of remakes. You know, we both said, uh, who cares? Like you wanna remake a movie? So, it deserves it or needs it. I never felt that this movie ever deserved a remake. The the original Wicker Man. And, and you can go back and listen to our episode on it, but I gushed all over it in that episode.

It’s just an interesting, odd, Uhhuh, , beautiful piece of filmmaking that’s got a lot of different things going on. It’s just intriguing, I think from beginning to end. You just don’t know what’s happening, what’s going on, and there’s music in it and yeah, 

Craig: there’s, that’s what I was gonna say. It’s weird, but for whatever reason it works now.

I’ve only seen it. Yeah. I’ve only seen it the one time that we watched it for the show. Um, but I do remember it being weird, but I like, there is like a whole musical number, right? Like in the, in the bar. 

Todd: Multiple, yeah, in the bar around the May pole. There’s kind of a dance and, and singing scene out outside where the girls are running naked and jumping around a fire.

It’s Yep, yep. All through it, you know, and the opening credit scene, um, sequence has this gorgeous song over it. It, it’s just a movie that defies description really. Right. In such a good way. And like you said, it, it shouldn’t work, but it does. It just so oddball, but it just works beautifully well, and 

Craig: somehow it managed to still be suspenseful.

and, and, ah, I don’t know about scary, but you know, I, it was intriguing, you know, I was definitely like in it for the ride. Uh, and, and was curious as to how things were gonna play out. Yeah. 

Todd: Well it’s a mystery 

Craig: in a way. Yeah. And this movie is such a, I don’t know, like it doesn’t stray that far. Like it changes some central things.

Oh God. But it doesn’t really stray all that far. Like, I read somewhere that something like 80% of the dialogue is verbatim from the original. A lot of it is sometimes in different contexts, but still, uh, 80%, that’s a lot. So you would think that, you would think that somehow it would translate and hopefully even be better.

It just, it just, it’s awful. , 

Todd: not just as a remake, it’s just an awful movie. And, you know, I’m going back to again, we were very kind to the idea of remakes. And one thing that we had kind of both agreed on was, you know, the originals still out there. Yeah. So if you wanna remake it, go ahead and remake it.

It’s not like you can’t, it’s not like it erases the, the original from the map. But , I have to amend that a little bit because I think part of what makes us a little feel a little cringey about remakes is this thought that remakes are here to expose one thing you had said to expose like a new generation to an older story.

Yeah. And I just can’t think of anything sadder. , then a new generation being like, oh, I heard the Wicker Mans like this amazing classic movie. Oh, let me go find, oh, here we go. Well, it’s a remake. It’s gonna be, you know, oh, I’ll just watch this one instead. And then you can’t go back and watch the original after you’ve watched this.

I know 

Craig: what you mean. Yeah. You can enjoy it, but you won’t want to . 

Todd: Yeah. I don’t want this to be anyone’s first exposure to the wonderful odd treasure that the original Wicker Man. Because this movie is so not a treasure in any way, shape, or form, except just kind of an encapsulation of what I love about Nicholas Cage and his weirdness.

It’s just a movie to laugh at and scratch your head at because it is just hilariously bad from start to finish. It 

Craig: is. It’s a real head scratcher though, because it shouldn’t be so bad. Like, no, we can, we can say lots of things about Nick Cage. You know, he’s definitely got his, we’ve said this before, he’s.

His own style of acting. It’s unique to him. He’s built an, a huge successful career on it. It, it, the, the guy’s talented, 

Todd: everybody gives him so much crap. And I, I don’t care. Like everybody’s got their thing. Nicholas Cage has his thing. Sean Connery has his thing, right? Like so many actors have their thing.

Why does everybody hate on Nicholas Cage so much? I don’t know. I don’t understand it. I, I think 

Craig: maybe he’s kind of an easy target, which I don’t really get because I, I do think that he’s very talented, but he’s a little bit eccentric, you know, both onscreen and off and, but he doesn’t, at least anything that I’ve seen him on, he knows how he’s perceived and yeah.

Uh, he doesn’t care. And he works in movies. , you know, with people who appreciate him and where he can showcase. Odd talent, especially lately he’s been doing a lot in horror and sci-fi and some really independent interest. Yeah. Interesting stuff. Mm-hmm. , I’ve seen a couple of those movies and yeah, it’s Nick Cage.

It, you’re gonna get what you get from Nick Cage, but they’re interesting movies, so that’s one. He’s, you know, he’s good. Um, and then you’ve got other really good people in this 

Todd: too. Like it’s chock full of good people. 

Craig: Yeah. Like Ellen Burston. What are you doing in this movie? ? I don’t understand it. Right.

And, and I, and I felt like she didn’t really understand what movie she was in. Like No, I, I thought that she thought it was very serious.

and, and don’t get me wrong, she is just stunningly beautiful, uh, in this movie. Like, she’s an older woman and, and just strikingly gorgeous. And, and she looks great and she doesn’t do anything wrong, but. Why are you in this movie? And then Francis Conroy, I love Francis Conroy. Uh, she’s done a lot with American Horror Story, but she’s been around forever.

She played Mrs. Putnam in The Crucible and she was on Six Feet Under. She, she’s been around, she’s great. And many, many other recognizable faces. On top of that, Neil Leu was really kind of an up and coming director at the time. Mm-hmm. , wanna hear a fun story? Yeah. I’ve met Neil Leu in 2001. I was studying abroad in London and I was studying theater and, and we went to plays, multiple plays every day.

Neil Le Butte was directing a play at the Al Maa Theater called The Shape of Things, um, starring Paul Rudd, Rachel Vice. Gretchen Mole and one other guy whose name I can’t think of. And I went and saw the show and it was a really cool show. It was a medium sized theater. It wasn’t tiny, but it was fairly intimate.

And the, the play was done in the round. I was sitting there with my sister and a friend who were there, uh, on the same trip as I was. We were sitting directly across from Alan Rickman. Oh wow. Which was really cool. And uh, after the show, the cast and the director did a meet and greet. So I met Paul Rudd and Rachel Vice and all of them.

Paul Rudd was kind. Um, it was obvious that he wasn’t into this whole meet and greet. I think they had to do it every night. Mm-hmm. And it was obvious that he wasn’t into it, but it seemed like the reason he wasn’t into it was because. It was his birthday and his mom and a lot of the rest of his family was there, like standing off in the wings, watching while people were like getting pictures with him and stuff.

It just, he was really, really nice and friendly, but it was pretty obvious that he would rather just be hanging out with his mom. , , Rachel Vice, not so friendly. Also clearly not into it, and, uh, wow. Um, not really afraid to show it. And Gretchen Mole was the, probably the least famous of the four people in the cast.

And I saw her off, uh, at the bar sitting by herself. So I went over and had a drink with her, which was really cool and a fun story to tell. But I also met Neil Le Butte. He was a youngish guy. I don’t know how old he would’ve been, uh, at the time. Um, but he was really nice too, a little bit smelly. Uh, I don’t know if he was nervous or what, but he was really sweaty.

Uh, I, I had the whole cast and him sign my program and he was so sweaty that he like smudged his, uh, autograph, um, , but nice guy and kind like what he was kind of known for. I don’t know if he’s done much. I think he still writes a lot, but I don’t know if he directs much. He was kind of known. For really compelling human drama and the play, I saw the Shape of Things was a really, really compelling human drama.

And so when I saw that he was the director, which I didn’t know going in, I thought, well, this is cool because he can make this, you know, he, he will do a good job of having really interesting dynamic characters and, and it’ll be kind of this human drama. And I was just so disappointed. It just, the whole thing seems really kind of pedestrian and, yeah, nothing special, like you said it, it’s just kind of a bad movie.

I think that I wouldn’t have such negative feelings about it if it weren’t a remake of a movie that’s really kind of considered a cult classic and that so many people cherish, you know, if this were just a movie on its own, I could watch it and be like, well that was stupid, but whatever. It’s just another stupid movie.

I almost. I, you know, I was thinking of you and, and how fond you are of the first one, and I almost got a little bit mad because I felt like this movie was kind of making a mockery of the first one. Yeah, I don’t get it. Why would you make a remake of a movie that you know is well loved by at least some certain niche group?

just to make fun of it. And, and what I read was that, you know, everybody does make fun of it. And they say that it’s unintentionally hilarious because of, um, cages, you know, melodramatic antics or whatnot. And years later he did a bunch of interviews where he said, Ugh, that was on purpose. Uh, yeah, he, we 

knew, 

Todd: he realized we’re making this absurdist 

Craig: black comedy.

Right. And, uh, he said, you know, it, it, it would’ve been much more clear if the producers had allowed us to do what we wanted to do. Um, apparently he wanted to wear a handlebar mustache throughout Oh God. And then he also wanted to be burned in the bear suit because he thought the ridiculous nature of that would just make the whole thing much more horrifying.

I don’t know. Maybe, maybe not. I don’t know if he started saying that after mid-summer came out, cuz that’s how, in part how mid-summer ends, but, Ah. It just made even hearing or or reading those interviews where he said, oh, we knew what we were doing. We knew that it was, you know, black comedy. That almost made me more mad.

Todd: Yeah. Like, why are you doing it then? ? Yeah. Well, it’s not build as a comedy. You look at the poster art, you look at the trailers and things like that, and it’s really hard for me to believe this because there’s so much absurdity in here that just defies description. Like it’s not clever. It just comes across as incompetent filmmaking.

Like there’s a moment where, and it’s so quick that I don’t even understand it, where there’s like a dead guy on the beach and he reaches in and shakes him for a second. Like, he thinks he’s gonna wake him up where he’s, he’s this guy could not be more dead. I laughed out loud at that scene and there was so much other stuff like this, you know, just little things slipped in, huge plot holes.

Oh. And I don’t even think the movie has an internal consistency for the themes that it’s, that it’s trying to go for. I think Neil Le Butte has also been accused of being misogynistic in some of his previous works. Mm-hmm. and even at the time this movie was coming out and they were doing interviews for this movie, people were asking him point blank, you know, you’ve been accused of misogyny in the past, how would you, you know, describe this movie?

And he says, oh, well, you know, this movie, you know, kind of flips that idea on its head. And I hope you can see through the, you know, it almost seemed like he’s trying so hard to change the original Wicker Man into this, to like a, a, a response . Because in, in the original Wicker Man, you know, it’s this, Summers aisle, this place, right?

That, that everybody there is fine and happy and kind of doing their own thing. And this inspector comes along and just kind of like starts being irritated at their lifestyle, essentially just accusing people of things and pointing fingers all to get to the bottom of this mystery of this missing girl.

And yes, the townspeople are being weird and cagey, and the things that one person is saying don’t seem to match up to what another person is saying. And then sometimes a person will kind of change their tune in the middle of a conversation, but, and it just draws you into the mystery more like, what is going on with these people?

But you never get the sense, you, you’ve, you’re like, okay, if something sinister is happening here, like it’s hidden right? In this movie, it’s like, , he goes out of his way to paint these peoples, not just sinister, but mean like these people, like their whole day is nothing but them scheming and conniving something because every person that Nicholas Cage encounters in his investigation at this on this island is like, Cackling or being really snide and, and saying things with clear double entendres or hidden meanings or just not answering his question.

And then he’s like the worst investigator of the world by not pursuing it any further and just like, okay, well that was weird. And just continuing to wander around on his 

Craig: bike. On his bike and a grown man in a suit on an old fashioned bike will never not be funny. Like every, every time he hopped on that bike, I just thought it was hilarious.

And my favorite was at one point he stole the bike. I mean, he had to, I, I guess he stole them all cuz they weren’t his. But like I, I feel like at one point he just straight up took some lady’s bike step away from the bike. 

Todd: just like, well he is a cop I guess. But I. 

Craig: I guess he’s a highway patrolman. Like

What? Like all of a sudden you’re a detective. No, sir. These are not the same things. , 

Todd: right? . Well, that explains why he’s a shitty detective, let’s put it that 

Craig: way. He keeps like, he keeps brandishing like, I’m the law. No, you’re not. Like you, you are a highway patrolman on leave. Like you have no authority here.

Go 

Todd: home. Yeah. And he’s also not even kind of like in the first movie now, we don’t really see the beginnings of the guy being sent the letter. We just see him as he lands. But you get, you know, he’s in his, his official outfit, he’s in a police investigator, he’s, I’m there on the authority of the crown and all this stuff.

You know, it’s like you get the idea. He’s officially been sent there to deal with the situation because he’s gotten this random letter and so he’s been assigned to take care of it. Whereas in this movie, Nicholas Cage personally gets delivered this odd letter. From what turns out to be like his fiance as ex-fiance, it’s saying that her daughter is missing.

It just instantly personalizes it. Uhhuh, . And so immediately the tone of the movie is so different from the first one. And then as the movie goes on, you realize that. This daughter is his, it’s so clunky, which is so 

Craig: obvious. It is clunky, but it’s also obvious like that that’s never even a point of discussion.

Like clearly he must have some general idea of how long ago it was when they broke up and Right. . So he never puts two and two together, that this little girl is the exact age that she would be. Uh, it’s, you’re right, it is, it’s clunky and stupid. And in the first one, the, uh, conflict I guess between the islanders and the detective is that he’s a puritan.

Like he is. Yeah. Like Uber, Uber religious, no sex before marriage, no drinking, nothing. And they are pagans and very, you know, free spirited, free love, you know, all this kind of stuff. One with nature. Yeah. Yeah. In this one. It’s that he is a man and they are all women. ? Yes, . 

Todd: Oh my God. It’s so stupid. And it’s played stupid too.

All the women are just snide and nasty and there are men there, but they’re, I guess we’re supposed to believe that their tongues have been cut out. 

Craig: I think so. It’s never, none of them stated directly. Well, one of ’em kind of like mumbles at some point, which may, it sounded like his tongue had been cut out.

But yeah, they don’t respond to questions or anything there hardly ever. There are hardly any men in the movie. And when you see them, they are just in the background. I don’t, I mean, at least once you’re on the island, I don’t think any of the men speak ever. Yeah. Uh, and, and you just see them. I was gonna say they’re mules.

Um, but they’re not, they’re worker bees because this is a beehive. The island is a beehive and there’s a queen. Oh my god. And the men are the worker bees, . 

Todd: But it’s so stupid because she continually refers to the girls as their, as her hive. I, I’m think this isn’t even internally consistent because there’s only one queen in a hive.

Uhhuh. . If you’re trying to make, you know, this male female thing. Okay, I get it. All the men in a, all the bees are men except for one. And they’re the drones and they just serve the queen bee. Well, that’s the hive though. Don’t call all your female followers and compatriots part of the hive. They’re not, it, it’s just a very imperfect metaphor.

I think it’s kind of ham-fisted in there for what they’re trying to accomplish. And, and this just begs the question, I think when you’re doing remakes, like you gotta decide what are you gonna change and why? You should have a reason for changing certain things. And I’m not against changing stuff. Get a different angle on them story, get a different take, explore different themes, modernize it, whatever.

Yeah. But I’m just scratching my head why they chose such a weird and difficult thing as to change the original story, which was that this, this island has a, it’s basically apples, they’re really, really known for apples. They’re like branded and it’s like these beautiful harvest that they get every year.

And that’s how the islanders who are otherwise isolated, you know, make all their money. And so it’s very, very important that their yearly harvest of apples comes through. Why would you change that into beekeeping? Hmm. Because I mean, bee, I, I might be, I, I maybe I don’t know enough about beekeeping, but is beekeeping a cyclical thing?

Like do you have a harvest of honey that comes at once a year and then the rest of the year the bees are making it? I don’t think so. Right. Aren’t they just always making 

Craig: honey? Yeah. I don’t really know. I have beekeeper friends, but they could tell me, but I, I don’t know. But I, the reasoning behind it is because bees are a matriarchal society.

But you’re right, it doesn’t, as I understand it, there’s only one female bee, like Yeah. Which is what you were just saying. There’s only one and the rest are men. So the metaphor doesn’t really fully extend, but I think that’s what they were going for. They’re like, well, for sure bees. It’s bees. They’re matriarchal.

Okay, that, we’ll, we’ll go for that . 

Todd: Now let’s make the bee 

Craig: thigs and now let’s just shovel this in. Women feminism. Go

Todd: You know, in the first movie, there’s that moment where, and it’s more subtle. I mean, nothing’s really subtle, but it’s played better, more naturally. I think in the first movie where the detective comes in and he goes to the bar and he’s asking questions and he notices on the wall all these photographs of the harvest, and there’s one person in town who is the photographer and they take pictures of the harvest every year.

By the way, this made a lot more sense. You know, in 1974 or whatever than it does in 2006. But, so there’s one person in town who knows how to take pictures, , and he takes a picture of the harvest every year, and it’s put up on the wall in the tavern, but there’s, the latest one is missing. And that’s kind of central to the mystery.

Why is the latest one missing? And in all these photos, you know, it’s girls displayed with, you know, the harvest Uhhuh, like with abundance of, of stuff around them. And in this one it’s just photos of girls standing in, like rings of flowers. Like every one of them is identical. Yeah. And when he does find the missing photo, I was intensely curious, like, how’s he gonna notice, you know, what’s the clue he’s gonna get from this photo?

Because in the previous movie you could see the woman, the girl’s staying there and there are hardly any apples around her. And so he is like, oh, this is the year that the harvest was bad. By, just by looking at the photo. In this one he like, Seize the photo, flips it, I guess, to a note written on the back that just says the, the worst harvest on record or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. Like, oh God. It’s just, again, like, it’s just so clunky. Like, why Yeah. Why do you change things and make it harder for yourself to make a good movie? 

Craig: It feels like an afterthought. Oh, now, now that you say that. Uh, I, I really hadn’t read that Neil Leu had been accused of misogyny, but now that you said it, it’s in my head.

And you’re right. All the women are kind of, well, , they’re men haters. I mean, that they just are, I, I I’m not It’s, it’s blatant on its face. It’s not like I’ve, oh, yeah. It’s not like I’m interpreting it in that way. Like they seem to literally hate men, and that’s, that’s not a good look from a. Uh, director, no, because they’re, they’re all kind of screwy and bitchy, and then you pit Nick Cage against them and he automatically becomes misogynistic and sexist and the way that he.

Communicates with these women is now, to be fair, he’s not greeted. He’s not welcomed, but he’s hostile with them too. Yeah, there’s, there’s one scene in particular where he walks into this woman’s schoolhouse and , she’s stern with him, but he is straight up rude, like, yeah, just really aggressive with her.

And then like he addresses her students and goes back and she’s got some big like verse of poetry or something written on the board and he picks up his eraser and erases it. And as a school teacher watching this, I’m sitting here thinking, how dare you? Like ? Yeah. 

Todd: He erased this without asking, 

Craig: how dare you erase my board address my student?

Barge into my classroom unannounced. You’re a complete stranger. And, and he’s just rude to her. Uh, again, she’s presented as being very combative and shrewish also, but yeah, it’s not a good look. No, I don’t, I don’t understand what the point is, like what point is he trying to make? I feel like there’s some interesting dichotomy between, you know, strict Puritanism and paganism.

What’s the dichotomy here? I don’t get it. 

Todd: Yeah, exactly. He’s just mad that they’re sort of anti-man. But it’s, it’s not the running theme of the movie either, right? It’s like this scene is especially true in the first movie, this scene. And, and that’s what makes it so different, right? Is that the people are, they’re not unwelcoming.

to the inspector in the first movie. They’re not assholes to him. Not hostile, right? No. They’re just cagey. Yeah, but, but part of why they’re cagey. Well, we know why they’re being cage. I mean, they’re also deliberately being cagey, but they’re also, the things that they’re saying kind of make sense within their belief system.

Like he says she’s dead and they’re like, no, she’s not dead. And he’s like, what are you talking about? Where is she? Well, she’s in the ground, you mean she’s dead. Well, actually, we don’t use that term that she’s dead because this isn’t our belief that people actually die. They get reincarnated. So there’s kind of this sort of explanation behind it that kind of makes sense and the people are very patient with him.

In explaining this, particularly the school teacher, this is one of those scenes where the dialogue between the old one and the new one are almost identical. And those school teacher in this movies played by Molly Parker was so cool to see her in this. And she, she performs well in this movie. She’s always good.

I don’t know her. Oh God, she’s been in, oh, she’s one of those like p people. I recognize her face. I’m like, oh man, every time I see her, I love to, I love to watch her’s, but I can’t remember. She’s pretty exactly what I know her from the most, some TV show. Anyway, she was great doing what she needed to do, but she’s bitchy and hostile to towards him.

And this other guy in the first movie comes and interrupts this woman’s class, but she’s smiling and she’s patient and she’s nice and she calls him outside to explain to him, and it’s like, sir, maybe we need to step outside and I’ll explain it to you out there. And then they have a nice little scene.

Now he’s still appalled by everything, you know, because she’s been teaching the class about phallic symbols and, and the fertility rights and things like that. But in this one, She’s like, we need to go outside. Grabs him out there and she’s just looks like she’s on the verge of tears and wanting to punch him out just because he’s a man basically.

It’s just so shallow compared to what we get in the first movie. Even though the scenes are written exactly the same, they are played so differently that, like you said, I think the words that you used, that it makes a mockery. The first movie is very on point, . It really is. It makes me 

Craig: mad. Me, me too, kind of, and I don’t even care that much.

Todd: I, I wasn’t gonna get mad about it, but now I am kind of mad 

Craig: about it. Yeah. But the, like, the, the inspector in the first movie also doesn’t, he doesn’t understand or agree with their way of life, but he doesn’t approach them disrespectfully and like he’s. I don’t know. I mean, he can be a little bit stern when he talks.

He’s business about them. He’s respectful and, and almost he’s got a charm to 

Todd: him. Yeah, he’s very sympathetic. 

Craig: He’s very sympathetic. He’s got a charm to him, and there’s just more by adding this, the connection between him and this woman, then that removes the opportunity for his kind of flirtatious thing.

Was it the Barmaid that he kind of had a flirty thing going on with in the first one? Yeah. 

Todd: The Barmaid’s in the original, her name was Willow. And so yeah, she was the one who was kind of tempting him throughout the movie. In this 

Craig: one, uh, the Barmaid is, uh, played by a woman. Oh gosh, I’m gonna look her up.

Uh, Diane Delano or Delano, um, and I recognized her right away. She was the bus driver from Jeepers Creepers two. Um, oh, but I just thought it was funny because in the original she’s kind of almost this comical Alpine Swiss . Yes. Swiss mis kind of bomber, uh, like in Leader Hoen or something. Um, and, and she’s very sexy.

Like, wasn’t that woman like a Oh yeah. Play playmate or something. Yeah, I don’t remember. She’s, but anyway, Diane Delano is a, a, a big like hulking woman. Yeah. Very intimidating. I almost, I found that kind of humorous to kind of flip that. A little bit, and I like her. She’s, she’s a funny actor. She doesn’t have much to do here.

But yeah, I don’t know. I mean, what do you say about the plot? Like, okay, so I guess we should talk about one another big difference is they give him a tragic backstory, which I don’t really, it seems forced and stupid, and. And, and unnecessary. Like it doesn’t Yeah. Ultimately lead to anything. I thought it was gonna tie 

Todd: in somewhere.

Craig: It’s just confusing. Yeah. You know. Okay. So he’s a traffic cop. He gets behind this station wagon and a doll falls out the window and he picks it up and he pulls him over and it’s like this single mom. And she’s like, oh, we’ve been in the, we’ve been on the road for a long time. And, and the daughter’s bored.

And, um, the daughter’s kind of bratty and he gives her the doll back and she throws it out the window again and he goes into the highway without looking. Idiot Right. To pick it up. And I guess kind of the implication is that this semi-truck maybe had to swerve to avoid hitting him. And so in instead Yeah, it crashed into the station wagon and everything blew up and he tried to, Busted through the back windshield and was reaching for the girl, but then the whole thing blew up and he got blown back into the highway and they’re presumably dead.

Okay, fine. Well, so then he is messed up by that and that’s when he gets this letter and decides to go off on this investigation. Doesn’t make any sense. But then he also continues having flashbacks to it, and they are so clunky. Mm. Like they don’t even look good. Like they’re in this, they’re weird. Weird black and white.

The first one is when he is on the ferry, it is not even to the island. He eventually has to, you know, like charter a plane, it’s the island or whatever. Um, but he is on a ferry somewhere and he sees a little girl standing at the rails, a little blonde girl, just like the girl in the car. And I, and it like flashes to black and white.

And then he sees the semi hit. On the ferry, like right in front of him. Super weird. And then he continues to have these flashbacks and like the little girl is I in his flashbacks, the little girl disappears. Like she’s not there anymore. I still have no idea what all of this was about because it doesn’t re, you kept thinking it was somehow gonna be connected, but it never.

Was, 

Todd: it just seems like, and, and, and you’re right, and there are reasons why we think it’s connected. Number one, that little girl looks like every other little girl on that island, right? She looks a lot like the Rowan, the girl he is looking for. She’s wearing a red card again, I believe, in the car. and in his flashbacks, which just like the girl that he’s on the island, right?

On the island. So I, I thought there would be some literal connection there. It just seems to just a, chew up the scenery and b served to say, to maybe show us that he’s troubled by his inability to save this girl. And so this is his redemption as he’s going to work his darnedest to save this other girl, but it’s no longer needed because he now already has a reason.

Right. Yeah. 15 minutes into the movie we find out. No, this girl’s his own 

Craig: daughter, so No, it’s later. They draw it out way longer than that. Yeah, that’s true. The, the, the Lady Willow played by Kate Bien. I don’t know anything about her. She’s excited from the fact that she’s very, very beautiful. But she’s shady too.

Todd: Yes. And she doesn’t even care. 

Craig: No. And, and, and like it seems, He, he is willing to overlook how incredibly shady she’s being. And by shady I mean that she just plays dumb. Like every time that he asks her about anything, she’s like, I don’t know. It’s, it’s a picture. That’s all. No, that is not all. Why don’t you tell me Rome was a part of all this, huh?

The rituals. I don’t, I don’t know. We’ll try because I’m out there bouncing around in circles and I can use a little help. Edward, why are you yelling at me? How about this? For starters, our daughter is part of your worst harvest on record. Now, you said before that they blamed her, so why don’t you tell me about this?

It’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s a ceremony that we have. I don’t know anything else. You live here . 

Todd: It’s so annoying or doesn’t answer, or walks away or something like that. You’re, he’s like, all right, and then he hops on his bike and wanders around the island some more. I 

Craig: know, but it’s like he’s willing to overlook all of that.

Because there’s maybe some chance that they’re gonna hook up, like yeah, the, it’s a, and he, she’s the only woman that he’s nice to it. It doesn’t seem weird to him at all that they met, had this love affair, she disappeared, was gone forever, and is now contacting him and playing totally dumb. Like she had this baby on this island and has been living there for at least seven years.

And anytime he asks her about, I don’t know, , I don’t know what you live here, I don’t believe for a second that you don’t know what’s going 

Todd: on. You guys do each other to the point of engage. Right. Yeah. They weren’t engaged at one point. This is the first he’s hearing about this island that she grew up on.

That’s so freaking weird in this cult or whatever that she grew up in. 

Craig: I don’t know. Maybe she didn’t tell him. I mean, that it’s possible because, I mean, God, spoiler alert, who cares? But she’s been playing him literally the whole time, like, yeah, this, this is a long game that they are playing , which also is bullshit like it, right?

The, the whole motivation of this is so stupid. Um, I guess. I don’t know. Eventually he meets up like he does lots of investigating. He investigates the school. It’s all really stupid. Everybody’s really shady. He meets up with some men on the road. I thought it was hilarious. This scene where he meets up with these, he helps the guy.

Yeah. Where he helps the guy. Okay. So there’s this, uh, like horse-drawn cart of all of these cut logs that like these men have been harvesting or whatever, and he sees that this guy’s having problems with them. Like a, a few of them have fallen off. So he is like, can I help you? And the guy doesn’t say anything cuz presumably his tongue has been cut out.

But then Nick Cage starts helping him and in the act of helping him causes. All of the logs to fall off . And then he gets all pissed off and leaves like, oh, thanks for your help, sir. , 

Todd: you came and made it worse. That got pissed 

Craig: off at enough . Very helpful. And, and like, there’s so many dumb things like the, the, the, the parts that are supposed to be suspenseful At one part, he’s like looking around in a barn.

I don’t even remember what he was looking for. He chased a girl in there. Okay. Or did he like ? Right. Is is he imagining things? Who knows, but he chases a girl in there or something and then. Uh, there’s a very suspenseful moment when he like falls through a, a hole in the floor, just apropo of nothing. Like that’s not, that’s, that’s not suspense.

It’s just a thing. And then it wasn’t out. It wasn’t a trap, you know? Yeah. You go snooping around in old barns, you might fall through the floor. These things happen. It’s not a plot point in a movie . Right. Oh my God. And there are other ones like that too. I don’t e what I 

Todd: love is the bees. Are we gonna talk about the bees though?

Yes. 

Craig: Well, yeah, that was the other thing I was gonna say, like another part where the music tells us that this is a very suspenseful part is when he just finds himself amongst all these beehives. 

Todd: Yes. Like, well pay attention to where you’re going. He’s stupid. He’s so dumb. He’s allergic to bees, which is a point, which is pressed home to us several times.

Yeah. He’s on his bike and he’s looking at something far off in the distance and he just rolls his bike forward a little bit to bump a beehive. Flips out and instead of going back the way he came from runs further into the field with all the beehives and amongst all the bees. 

Craig: like screaming and flailing about 

Todd: falling down.

Then he wakes up and the doctor has picked him up and taken him to Sister Summers aisle. So in the previous one it was Lord Summers ile. Now it’s Sister Summers aisle’s place where he’s gonna go meet Sister Summers aisle. He gets up, 

Craig: wait this, I also like this. So yeah, he is like attacked by the beast.

So he wakes up, he’s fine, but his clothes are off. Like he still has his under clothes on. But the doctor’s sitting there, Francis Conroy’s sitting there and he’s like, when they brought me to you, you were near death clearly. So I treated the danger in the old way. What, like , 

Todd: what are those? He doesn’t even wanna know.

What are 

the 

Craig: old ways he doesn’t even ask. I’m just thinking like, I don’t wanna wake up. With my clothes off and be told that I’ve been healed in the old ways. Like . I don’t know. I, I mean, I’m thinking of like, I, I remember I had to personal story time. I had to at one point, uh, get a colonoscopy and I told Alan because af like afterwards, he’s like, how was it?

And I was like, it was fine. They knocked me out and I woke up. It was like nothing happened. They could have done anything to me. I have no idea. . That’s what I was thinking with him. Like, ah, man. The old ways, 

Todd: I love it because, you know, he wakes up in her house and that’s happened and then he goes outside to talk to Sister Summers aisle in the garden surrounded by, be.

Yeah. And then they chat and the whole time they’re chatting, there’s bees buzzing around and he’s occasionally slapping his neck and stuff. Then they go on a walk amidst the beehives. Uh, I’m like, Uhhuh, what? Why are you, I thought this was a big problem for you. Right. And it’s hilarious. And now we just walk around amongst the 

Craig: bees.

Millie, this part is so funny because at this point, like when they’re walking amongst the bees, he’s like pulling up his collar and like, hiding it or like hiding his face in it. It just looks so stupid. It’s really dumb. It’s, it’s hilarious, but it’s stupid. I do have to say, I mean, Ellen Burston took this part and ran with it.

She’s very regal. Uh, I just can’t get over, I have no idea how old she is now or how old she was then, but just stunningly, stunningly beautiful. And, you know, seeing her out in amongst all these flowers and all this vegetation, she’s in this long flowing gown. She just looks fantastic. And she’s regal. She has a regal, um, presence and she kind of just doesn’t.

Put up with his nonsense or she remains very calm with him. Her performance in this role is not unlike Christopher Lee’s performance in the first one. 

Todd: Well, I think it’s a pale imitation of fair of Christopher Lee’s, Christopher Lee’s conversation with the man in the previous movie is, again, almost word for word, exactly the same, but it just feels better.

It’s more natural. It’s whatever. This, this feels like a, a woman saying lines. And you know, she’s also like, the thing about Christopher Lee in the original, he’s, he’s so loose and calm about it. . Yeah. And because he’s just explaining like he has nothing to hide. This is what we do on the island. And he’s almost a picture of patience when this guy who’s this uptight Christian, you know, with his rigid belief system, who that is so offended by their ways on the island, you know, he’s gotta have extra patience.

And he just, he does that so naturally this woman you just feel is on the edge of, you know, she’s just holding it in. 

Craig: See, and I, I felt like she treated him and talked to him like, she doesn’t have time for this nonsense. Like, yeah. It almost as though anytime he spoke, she would have preferred to have been rolling her eyes.

Like, Ugh. Exactly. Shut up. That’s a stupid man. . And she says something about like men having their place and Yeah. Summers Island explains the whole history of the island and talking about how like they make sacrifices to the great mother spirit and she’s telling this. Like her ancestors did all of this.

Yeah. And I’m thinking it, it also, I think, hurts the story to transplant this to the United States. Oh yeah. Because that kind of deep heritage, unless you transfer it from the old world, we don’t have that kind of history. Really. No. Like we don’t, we’re not old enough to have that kind of history. Now I do think that the implication was, this was like old world European tradition that did get transplanted over here and changed in some way because they made this sacrifice for the harvest and it used to be a blood sacrifice.

But now, In the new world, they burn people. Right? Isn’t that what they said? That’s 

Todd: how it is in the old movie. Yeah. That’s kind of, well, in the old movie, there are different ways that they take care of the sacrifice, but the most effective or is the burning apparently Something like that. Gotcha. 

Craig: Anyway, so, uh, and she tells them that men are important for breeding.

She says that procreation is the desire of the goddess, and he gives her this. He like proselytizes about murder. He’s like, murder is murder. The law is the law and you have to follow the law. She’s like, okay, , whatever. And then he hops on his bicycle and gets outta there 

Todd: and leaves

Well, he does get permission to exhume the grave and then he finds a doll inside. And at that moment he hears some crying coming from the crypt. Yeah. Uh, nearby. And so he decides to go down into the K cryp and investigate where that’s coming from. And he finds a cardigan willow with, um, Rowan’s initials on it or whatever.

And so he decides to go swimming through the crypt. Yeah. And as he comes back around it, somebody closes the crypt door, like it’s the door. It’s like a, it’s like a trap door on the floor, basically. Ah-huh. . Yeah. That gets closed on him and locks him in there and he has his flashback or whatever, and then Willow just happens to be coming by, I guess, I guess whatever it was.

Probably her that locked him in there and comes down and saves him. Well, here’s why. Why is somebody trying to kill him now? Why 

Craig: is anybody doing any of this? It doesn’t make any sense. It makes absolutely no sense. They are leading him on this wild goose chase for no reason. She, and, and then my favorite part among many, she lets him out and he’s like, go back to your house or whatever, and he says, something bad’s about to happen.

I could feel it. I could feel it.

No, that’s, oh my God. So funny. 

Todd: But, but this is after he very impa Impassionately shows her the doll, hers. 

Craig: Tell me. I Yes. I I think it, yeah. How’d it get burned? How’d it get burned? I, how’d it get burned? How’d it get burned? , why don’t, and she’s like, I don’t know. Calm down . And, and, and who cares? Like, I, I don’t know.

Is that supposed to be some connection to the fire in his dream? Like, or, or the accident in the beginning. Oh, like, I’m, I’m really questioning was that woman and that little girl in that car, like, did these people set that 

Todd: up? I know, right? This is what I thought. There’d be some connection, but because I almost feel like 

Craig: that’s maybe suggesting that they did, but it doesn’t, I don’t know.

It doesn’t make any sense. But something bad is about to happen. He can feel it. So he goes back to summers, idol’s house, and he finds a gross old man. In a bed and I was the man bee stung. Is that why he looked so gross? 

Todd: I don’t know. 

Craig: I think he, I think he, I think he was supposed to be bee stung. I just love how he 

Todd: starts opening doors, opens the door, finds the weird guy in the bed, looks in.

Oh, okay. And just keeps going. . 

Craig: Yeah. And then in the next room there is a naked young woman in a chair just completely covered in bees. But then he stops looking because he doesn’t find somes aisle. Lounging. Luxuriously in her bed upstairs attended by young women, . And then we get to, he couldn’t 

Todd: be bothered to go up the stairs, I guess.

Craig: No, he had seen enough, something bad is going to happen. He has places to be. And so he goes out and he runs into that Sister Rose again, the school teacher. And she’s wearing a bird mask. And I’m like, thank God, because I knew this was the end . I had been looking at the time. So like I kept, oh yeah. Okay.

Thank God. 30 minutes left. Oh my God. Thank God. Only 20 minutes left. and then we get to this part and I’m like, Ugh, we’re getting to the end. Thank God. So she’s in a bird mask and she’s ready to celebrate life and. Whatever that means. And he pulls a gun on her and steals her bike. Yes. Away from the bike.

Step away from the bike, . And then he runs into these creepy old twins. There are tons of twins. What is with the twins don’t understand 

Todd: the twin thing. I don’t either, 

Craig: but there are lots of them. Like Sister Rose has a twin 

Todd: and there’s some, these creepy twins, sisters speak at the same time, but they only have like two lines in the whole movie.

And we 

Craig: only see these twins. They run into him and it is, he . And he keeps running. And he like, he goes to the pub and the men are in there, but they won’t help. And that’s when he says, and I remember this from the first one when he breaks into some lady’s house and he’s like, I am gonna search every inch of this town over the next three hours.

He proceeds to do that. And that’s when he finds the, uh, pilot. It’s the pilot who he finds dead on the beach. Yes. Yes. They killed him. That because he, why did they kill him? Because he 

Todd: brought him there. . But they wanted, they wanted him there. That’s true. So why would they kill him? I don’t know. It 

Craig: doesn’t make any sense.

Um, so then he keeps running around. He punches out. Sister Beach and summer aisle now is leading this ceremony and she’s all painted ceremonially and he’s got her hair down and everybody’s in costume and these animal costumes, it’s a 

Todd: pale imitation of the first movie. It is. We’re all, we’re all of this is so nicely set up because he goes to the library and he reads this book about the ancient traditions of this, and it lays out like three or four things.

The fool, the leader who dances in front and the um, , the swordsman with the star who like cut the head off of someone and mm-hmm. . So even that bit is full of tension and of course a whole bunch of irony because he ends up in the full costume. Right, right. At the end of it, you know, he’s like the fool.

Like, literally. It’s quite cool. You’re 

Craig: right. I had, I had forgotten about that. I, I will say that from an aesthetic perspective, I really liked these costumes. I, I think that, uh, the costumes in the original were probably more real to life. Like, these look like movie, you know, they’re, they’re very intricate.

But anyway, so it’s all this big ceremony and it much of this is just like the original. He sees the girl Rowan tied to a post as though she’s going to be burned. 

Todd: He, he’s in a bear costume. . Yeah. 

Craig: Full bear costume. Which I mean, good in that, yeah. That would fully disguise you. But again, just as a grown man in a suit on a bicycle looks kind of ridiculous.

A grown man running around in a full body para suit, it, it just looks silly. 

Todd: He comes running out of the woods and just joins the line. You know, like with 

Craig: no explanation of where he got it, what 

Todd: know this or whatever, like he’s supposed to be disguised, but you know, and he kind of like lowers the jaw to talk to Willow real quick because he still thinks she’s on his side.

And so he’s sneaking into this line and then he just leaves the jaw down so you can clearly see his face, which I guess is painted black or brown or so. But when he takes the costume off later, there’s no makeup on his face at all. Oh 

Craig: yeah. The other thing, when he meets Willow, he’s like, I thought I told you.

I thought I told you to go back to the house. She looks at him going, I had to come

Todd: And then he sees, oh God, he sees Rowan, you know, tied to the tree like you said, and he runs up there by himself, the bear costume, and punches out. another lady with this huge ride hook, this bear. Just punches this woman in the face, 

Craig: hilarious. And he grabs can imagine. No, you can’t imagine. It’s it sound. It is just how it sounds.

And it’s, yeah, pretty darn funny. And he grabs her and he picks her up and he starts running through the woods as he did in the first one. And then he puts her down so that he can take off his bear costume and they can run together. But she runs ahead and he can’t catch her. And she gets ahead and you see that she runs right into the arms of mother Summers aisle or whatever.

And Willow is standing right there next to Mother Summers aisle. And turns out, you know, she is summer aisle’s daughter. And this was all set up from the beginning. God, she has so many lines here that are, it’s just ridiculous. Something like, The game of the hunter hunting the hunted. What? Mm-hmm. and and willow’s in on it.

And she’s, uh, some recital says It’s your destiny. We require a stranger, but one who is connected to us by blood, , . So like I said, this was a long game. Apparently they sent Willow out into the world to get knocked up so that she could come back and I guess seven years later or whatever, then they would lure him back.

But the thing is he has to come of his own free will. So she says, she says, you have come of your own free will to keep this appointment with the wicker man. That’s fine. But why this whole catton mouse thing on the island? Like he came to the island of his own free will. Why didn’t you just have him show up the next day , which is the day when you need to kill him.

As soon as he gets off the plane, be like, welcome. Now you die. Like, I don’t understand what this whole charade. Is, it doesn’t make any sense what is the point. 

Todd: That’s why this whole, all of these words in the mouths of these characters in this situation are just, they fall flat. You know, they might be pulled from the old movie, but they just don’t have the same effect.

They don’t even make the same sense because in the old movie, this is like a revelatory moment and you’re just like, oh my God. Like he really did come here of his free will. He stayed of his own free will. They were almost actively, well, they were actively encouraging him to leave. Right. And all the, the stuff that happens to him on the island, there’s testing involved.

Right. Cuz they needed a virgin. And so, you know, he’s being tempted by Willow, but he doesn’t succumb to that. And so, you know, all of this is sort of like to affirm that they have the right person, right, right. That fits all of the requirements that they need here. It’s just the guy that they lured. , and I guess he came of his own free will because he, you know, wasn’t dragged kicking and streaming to the island in the first place.

You know, that’s it. Right? So it’s just lame. 

Craig: Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense. And so he points his gun at summers aisle and pulls the trigger, but it’s empty. And Willow shows that she has the bullets and she drops 

Todd: them all. Right. I guess she’s had those in her hand the whole time, , just to 

Craig: show ’em . And at this point now we saw the theatrical release.

Yeah. Um, and at this point, It kind of just cuts to the crowd. Or maybe it cuts to black or something and you only, you only hear what’s happening. He, he calls them bitches. You bitch this, you’re enjoyed it for nothing. Killing me. Won’t bring back your goddamn honey. Oh, no, no.

I’m not one you, I don’t believe it. Ah, my legs. My legs. I’m just hearing this like, it sounds like it was recorded. Adr, they just played it over. I mean, obviously not stock footage, but that’s what it looks like. Like i, I, I guess maybe they cut this for the rating or something cuz it’s different in the unrated version it’s laugh out loud funny.

Yeah, it’s really, really bad. And then you see him, they’ve revealed the wicker man to him, which is huge. And they pulley him up there by the ankles. The daughter Rowan lights the fire and everybody in the crowd starts chanting the drone must die. And I didn’t even know what that meant. I had to look it up.

But drone bees, the, their only function is to mate. They don’t even have a stinger. Um, they, they just mate. And then when they do mate, their penis tears off and, uh, take just like, you know, bees with stingers, like their insides are connected to the stinger and they sting and their insides get ripped out.

Same thing happen with the drones. Dick like it, it gets it. Falls off and tears all their insides out. So after, uh, mating they die. So apparently the drone must die. And he screams as he burns, and Dr. Moss takes a picture of the burning and the wicker man collapses. And I remember the ending of the original was so great.

Like it was just the best, like one of the best shots I’ve ever seen where the camera just kind of pans up and back on the Wicker Man as you see it burning and you just kind, and then it fades in on the setting. Sun in the background. Mm-hmm. . Oh, it just looked so great. Well, here it just collapses. And then in the version that we saw, which is the theatrical version, I think that the Unrated version was released like on DVD and Blu-ray, but we’ll talk about that in a second.

In this version, cuts to Black six months later and. Honey, who we’ve not mentioned played by Lili Sobieski. That was a blast from the past. Haven’t seen her in a while. Hmm. Yeah. Honey and Willow pick up James Franco and Jason Ritter in a bar. and Honey says to James Fraker Franco, when you leave here, where you going?

He’s like, I don’t know, I guess home. And she’s like, when you go, will you take me with you? And then you hear bees buzzing and you hear malice. The nick cages, ah,

in the background. And then that’s the end. Oh. Oh. And I thought that was kind of funny, but did you watch the uh, the other ending, 

Todd: the cut? Oh, you mean the Beat The Beast one? Yeah, the one , the one that has memes all over about it. 

Craig: Yes. Well, that was the thing, like I, I finished the movie. I was like, wait, where is that scene?

Did I miss it? No, it’s, it’s the unrated ending. 

Todd: Nicholas Cage just basically gets a cage put over the top of his head, and then they’d pour bees down in it. , he just goes crazy. 

Craig: What? What is that? What is that? What is it, Lord? Not the bees, Lord, the bees. My eyes, eyes, eyes, and then he dies. But then they bring him back to life with an EpiPen so they can burn him alive.

That was nice. That was considerate. Oh, 

Todd: why, you understand why they even burn him? Why? 

Craig: Or, or why the bees like just to torture him? Is it a ceremonial thing? They know he hates bees. 

Todd: At least it kind of makes sense. Like I guess if they’re gonna do the bee thing and he’s allergic to bees and whatnot, if you kill him with the bees, that kind of makes like, can’t, they can’t that be your sacrifice, you know?

Right, right. Then 

Craig: why do you have to burn ’em? I don’t know. I, and I don’t know which ending I like better. I actually kind of liked the concept of them sending out these young women and, and sexing ’em up and having them lure men, you know, to mate or whatever. I kind of liked that idea. It, it seemed, I don’t know it, the whole thing, stupid.

So to say that it seems silly is redundant. The whole thing is 

Todd: dumb. You know, we’ve seen that kind of thing before and like, you know, It’s vampire movies. Sure. All kinds of stuff. Hostile type thing. Logically speaking. I guess they’re just prepping guys in case they have a bad harvest. Like they don’t know they’re gonna have a bad harvest.

Craig: I don’t know. I, I think they need these girls, they need these little blonde girls for their harvest. So I think they’re just sending girls out into the world to get knocked up and come back, and then seven years later they can lure these men well for a 

Todd: sacrifice. They should be, should be hooking up with blonde guys.

Really? Yeah. Right. They want to keep ’em blonde. 

Craig: I couldn’t believe like this very last scene, which is two or three minutes, I’m like, is that James Franco? Is that Jason Ritter? Like this. I know, right. . 

Todd: That was a nice little treat. It’s weird. 

Craig: Anyway, yeah, like I honestly was kind of looking forward to seeing this just because it is notorious.

I, I mean it, it spawned so many memes and it’s just kind of a joke really. And Nick Cage gets pissed off about it when people talk about it like that because he’s really proud of it and proud of his performance in it. It just seems like somewhere along the line. People weren’t on the same page. Like if he, if he thought that he was going over the top and, and going for kind of dark comedy, it doesn’t read that way.

No. The rest of it doesn’t read that way. The tone is just all over the place. Like, I, I just don’t know what to make of it. And even the filmmaking I think is just okay. I think that a lot of it was saved by the fact that it was filmed in really beautiful locations that were interesting to look at, but there was nothing particularly innovative or skillful about the way that it was shot.

The score, I don’t remember anything about it. Like usually we can point to some things and say, well, they tried, this was good, this was good. This just seems like a misfire on pretty much every level. And I don’t get it. And I get why it’s been the subject of ridicule, but really it wasn’t. Fun to watch. No, un I wanted it to be fun.

I wanted it to be so bad. It’s good. I wanted to laugh with it and add it, but it just wasn’t, it just wasn’t 

Todd: fun. I was bored. Yeah. I think I did myself a disservice by, by watching the original again before I watched this. Ah, yeah. Probably that would, that made this even more painful. I mean, it helped because like I said, I could, I could recognize that so much of the dialogue was the same, but it just emphasized how much worse it was and it just exposed all those plot holes.

It made you wonder why, and it’s just like, my God don’t take something so great and makes something. So, like you said, it’s like a mockery of it that’s, it’s so bad that it’s sort of a mocking it and that kind of pisses me off. So I guess we found like a spot where I just don’t care for remakes in this way if they’re gonna do this.

I hate for somebody’s first experience with the Wickerman to be this movie, cuz I don’t think I could ever convince ’em to go whack and watch the original. And then I think if they did go back and watch the original, because kind of like more or less the endings have been spoiled for them. It just taints their viewing of it, you know, and it’s not gonna be as impactful.

Yeah, I think you’re right. 

Craig: It’s really a shame. I mean, I guess the good news is this movie is notorious it, it has a reputation so people know. I, I think, yeah, going into it, I mean, maybe, I guess your casual viewer who’s like, Hmm, I like Nick Cage. Let’s look for a Nick Cage movie. I haven’t seen, maybe they wouldn’t know about the notoriety, but I think anybody who likes horror, who’s familiar with horror, they, they know about the notoriety of this movie and that people consider it ridiculous, so, right.

Hopefully they would go in with that perspective, or they would just say, I’ll check out the original, hopefully, but , 

Todd: I really hope so. Well, thanks again for another episode. It’s been a really wonderful month, uh, doing remakes. Wanna really thank our patrons for, uh, the idea. It’s fun and I hope that we, uh, did you good.

If you would like to become a patron of the show, go to patreon.com/chainsaw podcast, find us on the web. Just Google, two guys in a chainsaw, uh, podcast, and you’ll find our website. Check out our Instagram page if, if you’re on Instagram, we’re trying to beef that up, put clips up and things, make things a little more shareable to try to reach out to another audience.

Uh, please do that. One of the pa one of the things that our patrons have allowed us to do is get a little bit better about promoting ourselves out there on social media, so you’ll see a lot more little goodies here and there as well. It’ll be shareable with your friends. Please, please, if you enjoyed this podcast, share us with some friends and write a review if you’re so inclined on any one of your favorite podcast hosting sites.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.