The Company Of Wolves (1984)

Episode 319, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well Craig, not much time has passed since our last tribute episode. As most of our longtime listeners know, every time a famous person passes on, we furiously run to i m DB and, uh, look up which horror movies they might have happened to have been in or involved with.

And, uh, last. Angela Lansbury passed away. The Dame Angela Bridget Lansbury, who was almost a hundred years old when she died. An absolute icon of the stage and silver screen and TV screen. I remember her from, Murder She Wrote in the eighties, which was a fantastic series where she played a woman who was a mystery writer and goes out and solves mysteries.

That was such a great series. It, it lasted a really long time, I think from the early eighties until like, uh, the mid nineties. She was in lots of movies, kids movies. She’s actually, when of, when you read the Wikipedia page, it mentions that she’s one of the last surviving persons of the golden age of Hollywood.

I mean, she was born in 1925 and she got started in the 1940s. I believe. She was in Gaslight, National Velvet, the Manchurian candidate. The list goes on and on. I cannot believe that she has stayed acting as long as she has and been as successful as she has just consistently over the years.

And as far as I know, n Narrow controversy or anything, just this sweet woman who, um, Had this wonderful career, so I it’s really kind of sad to hear that she’s 

Craig: gone now. I agree. I mean, what do you say? I, I, I think that, um, Angela Lansbury is just one of those few celebrities who’s kind of universally loved.

I mean, I, I, I can’t think of anything that anybody would have to say that would be negative about her. Yeah, you’re right. You know, she was born in London to prominent parents. Her mother was an actress, her father was a politician, upper middle class British, but she also spent time in Ireland. And she was also, uh, she became, uh, an American citizen as well, and spent a lot of time here.

So I, I imagine that like many international performers, she was able to, uh, adapt her accent as necessary. Um, and yeah, I mean, she. Her parents, uh, moved to the United States. I believe they started out in New York, but pretty quickly transferred to Los Angeles and she started auditioning at, uh, 16 lying saying that she was 19 years old and started working immediately.

I think that, um, she got nominated for an Academy Award for her first role for, uh, best supporting actress and received many, many, many accolades. She was nominated for several Academy awards. She won some Golden Globe Awards, several Tony’s, I think, and, and many others. And rightfully so. Uh, she was a, a great actress.

Of course. Most people, I think, um, our age and younger remember her as Mrs. Potts and Beauty and the Beast. That was one of her biggest popular roles and what she’s widely remembered for. I, I didn’t watch Murder she Wrote. I was very much aware of it, but my parents didn’t watch it, so I didn’t watch it.

But I knew her when I was a kid from Bed. Nos and Broomsticks. I loved that movie. Oh yeah. Very much akin to Mary Poppins. Less popular, but just as fun. She also famous for her theater work. She did Gypsy, She originated the role of May, I think in Sweeney Todd. Uh, she was famous for. Uh, and that her Broadway production of that was actually filmed and is available, you know, if, if you want to see that.

Uh, in fact, I almost wondered if we should have done that . Yeah, because I, I 

Todd: thought about 

Craig: it when she passed away. I thought, Oh man, that’s really sad. And of course, you know, like you said, anytime anybody, not necessarily every celebrity, otherwise every episode would have to be a tribute episode. But people who touched us personally in some way, um, and she certainly did.

She’s been a big part of my childhood and, and she’s been just one of those people who’s been a constant throughout my life. You know, she, she pops up her last film, um, I think it’s still in theaters now. Yeah. It’s in the Knives Out sequel. So she’s always been there. And so, you know, for her to pass is kind of a big deal.

And, uh, I thought, you know, it would be nice to pay tribute to her, but I thought, surely she never did a horror movie. . 

Todd: She did, right. . Now come on. She did. We know Better . I mean, there’s always, That’s always the thing. Surely this person didn’t do a horror movie, and then it always turns out that this actor had some low point in their career or was doing some favor to somebody, or for whatever reason, ended up in this off the wall way outta left field horror movie that nobody saw that got bad reviews.

And we end up doing these, these terrible movie reviews basically for a lot of these, uh, prominent, respectable actors, right? That we paid tribute to . 

Craig: I can’t imagine why she did this movie, but she was first choice and she was asked to do it, and she did the, the only thing that I know is that she was a huge fan.

Of cinema and television and she had diverse tastes. Yeah. So maybe, you know, she was just, maybe she was just one of those people who was kind of up for anything. Oh, yeah. Um, and it is, it’s a, it’s a fitting role for her. It’s a weird movie, . 

Todd: Well, it is. You know, the, the movie we’re talking about is called The Company of Wolves from 1984.

It is listed as a British gothic fantasy horror film. And I saw this, uh, didn’t you, I I used to see this in the horror section all the time because Oh yeah. The 

Craig: box art is incredibly familiar. 

Todd: Oh. And it’s extremely captivating. It’s this, uh, girl, and then there’s this, it’s, it’s like the woods, but there’s, uh, right in the front, right in your face is this man who’s in the midst of transforming into a werewolf.

And the way it’s happening is like, basically his mouth is wide open and the the wolf’s ma is coming out of its mouth. Like this wolf is literally bursting out of this guy’s. It’s really compelling. I don’t know why I never picked it up, to be honest, because I was super interested in it. So when I saw that she was in this movie, number one, I was like, really

And number two, I was, oh my gosh. She, she’s listed number one on the credits, uh, as a supposed title role here. And uh, this is a movie I’ve been wanting to see for so long. So I know we could have done Sweeney Todd and she’s got a more prominent role in Sweeney Todd, but it’s like a stage musical, it’s like a recording of a stage musical.

So I thought, ah, you know, this would be better. So yeah, I was a little selfish when I proposed to Craig. And Craig never turned down anything I proposed. He might regret it later, but he never turns down anything . So, bless you for letting us do the Company of Wolves. This movie was not at all. What I had expected, uh, not in the slightest.

And I will, I say that in a good way. Gosh, I, I’ve been, I’ve been, uh, well this is the kind of movie that I watch and I’m really, really glad that, um, you’re an English teacher and you spend your day going through textual criticism and, uh, unpacking layers of meaning and symbolism and texts with kids because, uh, I feel like your skills are gonna come in, come in handy with this one

Cuz this movie, it, it’s heady. Yeah. It’s way headier than I thought it would be. It’s much more literary than I thought it would be. It’s based on a short story from a woman, a novelist named Angela Carter, who was a well acclaimed, uh, feminist writer who wrote a book that’s basically a compilation. It’s called The Bloody Chamber, but it seems like it’s a compilation of more or less werewolf stories.

Yeah. It more or less unpacks the story of Little Red writing. Yeah. You know, honestly, when you, when you listen to fairy tales as a kid, you never think of subtext, right? . You never think, where did this come from? What is this really saying? Is there anything more to this than just a cute story or some little morality tale?

Hey little girl, be careful when you walk through the woods, kind of thing. But there is, and there always has been deep layers of subtext in this and, and most fairy tales and old folk legends that pass by over time and yet interpreted and reinterpreted. But at the core, when you think about Little Red Riding Hood, it’s.

D danger of, of men to girls. Men can be right. Wolves. And this girl is walking through the woods. I e uh, she’s going through life . She has a red hood, which can symbolize her blood menstrual cycle, uh, things like that. She might be coming to adolescents, and here you are when you’re an adolescent suddenly becoming attractive to men, and men start approaching you.

And not all of them have the best of intentions, right? So this is a, a story that really dives deep into that. But it’s not straightforward at all. It’s not straightforward in it’s narrative structure. It’s not even straightforward in its story. But, uh, I was glued to the screen, but also I was just scratching my head through a lot of it, thinking, Oh God, we’re gonna have to, we’re gonna have to analyze this , 

Craig: I guess.

I don’t know. I did, I did not know what to make of it. It, it’s, it’s bizarre, you know, first of all, Little Red Riding Hood on the surface is very clearly about stranger danger, you know? Yeah. Te teaching kids don’t talk to strangers. Okay. Very simple. But as you suggested, it’s not difficult to scratch just below that and find sexuality at play.

Um, and this movie explores that a lot. It really leans heavy into that element of it. So the movie. Starts out in real life. Mm-hmm. . It’s weird. Yeah. I, I it still feels, period, but, um, I’m not sure exactly what period it’s meant to be. 

Todd: It really runs that line, doesn’t it? Uhhuh, I mean, from the first few scenes, which there are no people in, it’s the woods that comes a comes onto this old looking.

Well, in the woods there’s a, a, a dog that pops in and, and sniffs around the well, and you can see that there’s a doll that’s very old looking doll that’s been maybe stuck for centuries in the, uh, the brush there by it. And he runs out and I’m immediately, I don’t know why, but I’m immediately thinking this is a period piece.

Right. Just the tone and look of it. And when the dog runs out of the woods to a street and a sedan comes driving down the road, I was really jarred. Mm-hmm. , my mind couldn’t adjust because even when the sedan pulls into the house, it’s going to, it’s this countryside mansion, this little British countryside, manion manor.

And this girl comes running out in. Flowy white Lacey kind of dress. Right. It, it’s, there’s so many little things about the house and what they’re wearing and the setting that bounce you back and forth and it’s hard to resolve in my head and I, I have to believe that was intentional. 

Craig: Yeah, I imagine so.

And, and this girl greets her. It’s her parents arriving in a car, I don’t know where they’ve been on holiday or something. And they ask about, they’re like, Where is she? And I didn’t know who I thought they were probably talking about the grandmother cause I knew there was gonna be a grandmother . Right.

But they weren’t, I guess the girl that we’ve seen thus far is the older sister Alice. And she goes upstairs and is kind of snotty and tormenting her younger sister Rosaline, who is asleep in her bed. It seems like she’s disturbed in her sleep and, and that’s this frame story is that she’s dreaming and she dreams.

The very first thing that she dreams is that her sister is dead. They’re at her sister’s funeral. Well, I guess we see her sister running through the forest. Yeah. That’s the first thing we see. Well, and it’s, it’s, it’s not just any forest. Most of this, almost all of it is set in these woods and in this village.

In the woods. Yes. And, and apparently it’s right outside of Rosalie’s window, like she can see. The area where it is outside 

Todd: of her window, but the camera kind of pans out the window. It pans across her room and shows all of her toys first, and then it pans out the window. Yeah. And 

Craig: then when the sister is being chased through these woods, they’re clearly fantasy woods.

There’s like large oversized towed stools and the toys from Rosalyn’s Room are there, but they’re like life size, person size. Mm-hmm. . Um, and they move and, and like walk around and chase, uh, Alice. Um, and eventually Alice is pursued by a whole pack of wolves. There’s tons of wolves in this movie. Actually, that’s not really true.

There are only two wolves in this movie. The rest, uh, are dogs 

Todd: painted to look like wolves? painted to look like wolves, but we don’t know . 

Craig: Well, I mean, it’s close enough. Yeah, it’s close enough, right? I guess. I mean, you don’t see it. You just see the wolves surround her and she screams. But then the next thing is at her outdoor countryside funeral, and she’s just in a pine box that they nail shut, and all of a sudden we’re in this fantasy fairytale world where we spend most of the time, but it keeps cutting back to Rosaline asleep and like crying or moaning or thrashing in her sleep while all of these events are going on.

Yeah. Now I read that they filmed all of the main story and then they decided that they wanted to do. frame thing that was in real life, and I don’t really get why I don’t get it. 

Todd: Here’s what I think. I, I think it’s kind of a, um, a way to show that this is a timeless tale. That it’s, it’s as relevant to modern day, at least to themes and things as it is to the past.

And so, even though it’s a dream that this, this girl is having, and also there’s a little bit of ambiguity, right, because she’s dreaming, but we, it has already been established that these places actually exist. Uhhuh and, and she plays the little Red riding. She plays herself in her own dream and Right.

And her 

Craig: parents are her, her parents. 

Todd: Yeah, her parents are there and you know, they’re, Now in this village, just outside of the house where she’s in and later in the dream world, there’s, there’s stories within stories by the way, right? In this, in this narrative. And one of the stories, uh, surrounds an upper crust British party, and that’s taking place in the law and outside of the home where she’s in right now.

Yeah. So there’s this strong sense of history. There’s a strong sense of her hereditary progression, ancestry, this kind of thing. But it’s so confusing, right? Because you’re, you’re waiting for an explanation for all of this. Like, you know, is she a descendant of these people? Is right. Was, was there some time war, but what’s going on?

And you never get it. You never get it. It’s, it’s very thematic. The director, um, Neil Jordan has done, uh, well, he won an Academy Award for writing, I think for writing, but he also directed The Crying Game. Uh, that was a huge movie in 92. He’s done a lot of well regarded movies, I should say. They’re not all 

Craig: Big.

Interview With The Vampire was the biggest one I was familiar with. Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. He, he’s a pretty good director. And I have to say, I, I was, I was impressed by the directing and the, the set design. Really a lot of the production of this movie I was really impressed with. Now he co collaborated, by the way, with Angela Carter on this.

Yeah. 

Craig: And they had a really good relationship. I guess that’s the thing, the source material, like you said, was just a collection of short stories, but then that collection of short stories was adapted into a radio production. And I think that it was in that radio production that they kind of structured it so that it was stories within stories mm-hmm.

so that there was a one big larger narrative. Um, but then within that larger narrative, Some of the smaller stories are told, and that makes sense. And that’s really what they based the film on. Was the radio production more so than just the original book? 

Todd: Yeah, that’s true. But I think Jordan also, uh, was, was inspired by a movie called the SAR manuscript, which is a Polish film from 1965 that did this also, that had story within story, kind of what he called.

A Chinese puzzle box of structure. Yeah. Uh, not only did he cite that as a inspiration, but also Roger Corman. Right. Roger Corman’s, um, uh, Ed ground post series as inspiration for this film as well. So I thought that was kind of interesting. I wouldn’t have seen that, but now that he mentions that, I, I do see it.

Yes. Cause those were all period pieces 

Craig: too. And then at the end it’s like the world’s collide. Yeah. Like the fantasy world in her real world collide. But it’s really, it’s kind, It’s a little bit anti climax. I mean, it looks good what they do. At the end, it looks good, but ultimately I just felt like the frame narrative was unnecessary.

I, I don’t know. Anyway, it’s fine. I just didn’t think that it was necessary because the rest of it feels like, A reimagining of a classic fairytale, just a little bit darker and for a little bit more of a mature audience. Yeah. But it, it does feel very much like a fairytale because it fe it doesn’t feel like the real world.

Oh, at all. It’s filmed on sets, which are very clearly sets. The costumes are very clearly 

Todd: costumes. Now wait a minute though. When you say they’re very clearly sets, you’re not, you’re not saying that the sets look bad, right? No, they look fake. They just look so unreal. There’s no way these could be anything but sets, is what you’re saying.

Right. And it, 

Craig: and it almost looks like not almost, It very much looks like a stage production. I think so with set pieces. I mean, the set pieces to me look like stage set pieces. Mm. They don’t, I mean, it’s good. It it, I think that that’s what they’re going for. I don’t think they’re going for a, a realistic look.

Absolutely. I think they are going for a fantasy. Yeah. And, and it looks like that. And, and I’m, I’m not saying it in a bad way. I’m, it’s not. I’m not. Offering this as a criticism, right? It’s just, this is a fantasy world. This does not look like the real world. It looks like a forest and a fairytale. It is dark, it is scary.

There’s all kinds of, At one point I’m like, what is with all these frogs, like, I don’t understand . There are so many frogs. What? I don’t get it. 

Todd: I’ll tell you, Ben. See, I’ve been thinking a lot about this movie. I don’t have the definitive answer about the frogs, but I have an idea about the frogs because frogs are, they’re another sort of fairy tale thing.

Like a lot of animals are, right? The, the spider and the fly and the lion in the mouse and whatever. But like frogs are the thing you kiss for your prince. Sure. They’re sometimes seen as men in disguise, you know? And the all the girl has to do is kiss it and this ugly, ugly frog turns into a beautiful prince.

It’s sort of the opposite of the wolf. This, this, um, educ. You know, man, who’s really, really nice, uh, once you interact with him, suddenly turns out to be this horrible monster, you know, that, that wants to kill you. And I thought that the frogs seemed to really reference a lot of grandma, Like grandma had frogs, little frog statues and things in her house.

And I might be reading too much into it, but I thought that perhaps that was a little nod to, or perhaps like the men she’s had in her life or that, you know, her husband long passed or something like that. I, I don’t know. That sounds, that’s what I thought 

Craig: anyway. Well, I mean, I don’t think, I don’t think you’re wrong to read something into it.

You know, I always tell my students when we’re studying literature, I say, If a writer keeps bringing something up over and over again, if an image gets, keeps getting presented to you over and over again, there’s a reason for it. They don’t just do this for no reason. And so I have to kind of think the same thing here.

There’s, there’s, there’s gotta be something, I don’t know if I get it, but for the number of times we see frogs, which is a lot , there’s gotta be something to it. Um, and I, of course I thought that too. You know, like the, the prince in disguise or whatever, um, there’s also a, a giant snake, a python or something that, uh, it gets lots of screen time just hanging out in the forest.

Yeah. And usually people just walk right by it and don’t even notice that they’re like, within inches of it, you know, inches from their face. And, you know, of course then there’s all kinds of connotations with snakes, with the, the story of Adam and Eve and the serpent. And then snakes also have kind of a, a sexual, you know, phallic kind of connotation thing too.

And, and the movie. Much of it is about sexuality. So I don’t know, but it’s, it’s, it’s strange. It’s interesting. It is interesting to present a well known fairytale, which by the way, it takes a while to get to. Yeah. It’s set up from the beginning, you know, that you’re dealing with Little Red Riding Hood and her grandmother and the grandmother lives out in the forest, and you have to stay on the path to get to grandmother’s house.

And that’s, you know, repeated over and over again how important it is and how dangerous it is to stray from the path. And so, you know, that’s what you’re dealing with. But it takes a long time to get there, to get to the actual story that we are familiar with of Little Red Riding Hood. You get there, but not until the very end of the movie.

And the, the rest of it is kind of several other stories about WW Wolves. Just in the context of Little Red Riding Hood. Yeah. As though, you know, like , the, the story that we know of Little Red Riding Hood is just one story of this community that was plagued by Werewolves. , yeah. 

Todd: Basically, Yes. These poor people , Well they do live in the woods, I suppose in the ancient woods at that.

Uh, you know, before we move on, uh, from talking about the production design, I just wanna say, just to be clear, and I think you’re saying it too, the production design. Gorgeous. Yeah, it is absolutely unreal. It, I was blown away because I’m just so used, especially these movies that I saw on the horror shelves, Right.

As a kid and never got to, and then I get to them and they’re usually pretty disappointing or at least they’re usually pretty cheap. I was shocked at how gorgeous the sets were in this movie. Uh, they fully had me in this world. They were unreal. They were beautiful. And the production designer got a lot of attention for his work in this.

His name is Anton first. He’s no longer with us, but he did, uh, actually he did special effects for Alien before this. Oh. Um, and then he ended up, uh, doing a couple more movies. This movie got him an attention from Stanley Kubrick who hired him on to do full metal jacket, and later he went on to do production design for Tim Burton’s original Batman.

He was the production designer for that. And that has a crazy style, right? Yeah. It’s amazing. This guy is super talented and to hear him talk, he said, We had such a low budget for this movie that we had to make 12 trees look like a forest and and they 

Craig: did. That’s hard to 

Todd: believe. It’s phenomenal. It’s 

Craig: phenomenal.

It seems like this forest is. Massive and it would be so easy to become lost, uh, in it to find out that it was only 12 trees is is insane. It’s really 

Todd: insane. It’s otherworldly this forest, it has vines and it’s, it’s your perfect fairytale forest. And like you said, the village that they’re in is, is perfect fairytale village from all the illustrations in your fairy tale books, it, it’s, it’s small, right?

And I think that’s what makes it look a little stagey. It’s like six buildings around a little well in the middle of the woods and that’s it. Which is kind of suitable because then you can believe that in the future, you know, all this went away. But that well is still there and it’s right down the street from where this house is.

It, it’s really great. I just wanted to, I just wanted to call attention to this guy and the great job he did on the production design cuz it really helped with 

Craig: the story. Oh, I agree. I mean, it, it sets the tone perfectly. It’s, it’s dark and, and creepy. I like it a lot. So Alice is, Apparently killed by this pack of wolves.

And then there’s a funeral and Rosaly goes home with her grandmother because her mother is mourning and in no condition to look after her or whatever. Um, so she walks through the woods with granny, Don’t stray from the pots. Go. You do not hear what I told you. Once you stray from the path, you are lost entirely.

The wild beast slowed all mercy. They wait for us in the wood in the. And once you put a foot wrong, they count. There. There now don’t take on. So it’s something you have to learn, otherwise you’ll end up like your boy sister Angela Lansbury. She was handpicked for this role because, uh, the director was impressed with her performance in the Mansur candidate.

Um, he said that she had kind of this sly cunning charm Yes. That made her perfect for this. And, and I agree. She’s, she’s not sweet little Mrs. Potts in this movie. No. She, she’s got an edge to it. 

Todd: She almost feels a little sinister at times, doesn’t she? Uhhuh . Yeah. It was really, really 

Craig: grateful for She’s good.

Yeah, she’s, she’s very good a wolf. Maybe more than he seems. He may come in many disguises. What’s that? The wolf that ate. Your sister was hairy on the outside, but when she died, she went straight to heaven. The worst kind of rules are hairy on the inside, and when they bite you, they drag you with them to 

Todd: hell.

don’t trust man.

Craig: Right. And she gives her this advice. She’s like, You, you’re, you’re young, you’ve got things to learn. This girl, Rosaline is supposed to be almost 13. She’s not even 13, She’s only 12. She looks older. She does, If I hadn’t known from reading about it that she was meant to be just shy of 13, I would’ve guessed 16.

Yeah. 17, maybe. Huh? 

Todd: She’s 12. The actress is 12. It’s crazy. 

Craig: The actress is 12 and there’s no mention of her age in the movie, but there is a trailer. in which there’s this scene where she says how I, I think it’s this scene when the, when the grandmother says, You’re young, you have a lot to learn. She says something like, Well, I’m 12 and three quarters or something like that.

I don’t know. But, uh, she says, You’ve got a lot to learn. Um, there are three lessons, never straight from the path. Never eat a windfall apple and never trust a man whose eyebrows meat. And I love that. A uni brow is the, like definitive characteristic of werewolf . And every werewolf in this movie has a uni brow.

Yeah, I love it.

Todd: You know, it’s weird. , I guess it’s, it’s kind of rare enough that you might as well make it a thing. I also like that because, uh, you know, it’s always cool when a movie does some foreshadowing and, uh, lets you in on how you can spot the quote unquote bad guys, right? So that whenever somebody comes on the scene with the uni out instantly ups the tension.

You’re like, Oh, this guy’s scary. That’s when she, she’s knitting her, her red shawl and she starts her first story. She tells her a story about a wolf. It’s presented as a flashback. It’s this woman’s wedding night, and she has married a traveling man. So obviously someone from outside of the town, they’ve just finished their wedding celebration.

He brings her. He’s, uh, very taken by her. He’s kind of looking her very lasly, I don’t wanna say lovingly, because it doesn’t really feel that way. He’s eyeing his own wife here. She’s so taken aback by it that she says, Don’t they have girls where you come from? And he says, Not like you. And there’s a porcupine there that’s kind of running around, and he tosses that porcupine 

Craig: hedgehog.

It wasn’t a, was 

Todd: it a hedgehog? I don’t know. I don’t have whatever, porcupine hedgehog. They both, they both hurt when you pick ’em up. , . Anyway, uh, he, he runs to the door and tosses it out, and as soon as he tosses it out and you start to hear these wolf house and you see that it’s a full moon, he turns back to look at her and says, I need to go out for a moment, A Call of Nature , which was a funny double entendre.

But when he looks back at her, you can see that his eyes have changed. They’re yellowish. I thought it was really effective. It’s really, really creepy, but mm-hmm. just. Natural, and I mean, it’s not natural, but just, it’s not like, you know, he started sprouting subtle fangs or anything. Right, right. So that he’s still human and can, can act human.

It’s, it’s really creepy. So she gets in bed, she’s extremely happy, she’s waiting for him, and he’s gone. Uh, and when she wakes up, there are just lots of wolves outside howling. And her thought is, Oh my God, it can’t be, She thinks he’s been carried. By wolves while he was peeing. And so she calls the townspeople in.

And I can, by the way, I can’t get over how many animals there are in the background, scenery, , uhhuh. There are just lots, There are goose and like you said, frogs and things. And almost every scene outdoors, just like wandering around in the front. Lots of of birds. Yeah. 

Craig: Chickens, turkeys, all kinds 

Todd: of things.

And anyway, you know, people are saying to her, Well, she, he’s gone. Did they find something? I can’t remember. I don’t remember what, what, what happened. No, I 

Craig: mean, she found, she. Like wolf paw prints. Yeah. But that’s it. No, no trace of him. Um, but he never came back. It was funny to me that he went out to Pete, fully nude Yeah.

because they were, they were in town. Hey, 

It 

Todd: was a different time. Craig . 

Craig: Yes. Yeah. But he, he never comes back and years go by, but, And grandma says, But she was young and, and had a, a charming personality. So she remarried and, and she had 

Todd: kids. She found another husband who wasn’t too shy to piss in a pot.

Yeah, . 

Craig: Love that line. That was funny. And just to hear Angela Lansbury say it, I have a feeling, you know, we look at Angela Lansbury, she’s this older woman, She’s very distinguished. I have a feeling that she was probably a, a fun old day. Mm. You know, like, Hang hung out with gay dudes. I I, I have a feeling this lady had a good sense of humor and, and knew how to have a good time.

Oh, yeah. But it’s just, it’s fun to see her in something like this where she has the opportunity to be a little bit more gruff and a little bit CRAs. Yeah. At times too. It’s, it’s, it is 

Todd: cool. Yeah. When you, especially when all you’ve been seeing is mostly of her on the TV screen playing this cute lady in a very pg TV show, you know?

It’s funny because not only does she have babies, she just seems angry and miserable. Like, Yeah. So anyway, yeah, she’s to home and she’s angry and she’s miserable. She’s got these kids and it’s like she’s got one kid in her arm and then you hear crying and she’s like, What the hell do you want? Turns around and then shut out another baby there, , she grabs that baby.

She walks over to the table, You realize there’s a third baby. I thought like this was just gonna be a running gag where this woman has like 12 kids and we’re just gonna see a new one. produced every time the seed changes. But yeah, it’s very clear that she’s a, a stay at home mom and she’s not happy about it.

Far from the romantic image that we had from her years before, uh, there’s a knock at the door and she opens it and it’s her ex-husband after all these years, and he’s quite shaggy. He comes in, he’s angry, starts calling her a whore. Where did these kids come from? Who are you with? And then we get our first really major horror element.

He starts peeling the skin off his face. It’s. Very gory, very awesome version. I think of a werewolf transformation for practical effects. I think it’s pretty good and it’s unique. It’s not as good as like Rick Baker’s transformation in, you know, American wear Wolf in London. But it’s a different style of transformation.

It’s like the wolf is like literally inside of him and is breaking itself out. He peels off his skin, off his face with his hand down to down to muscle layer, Uhhuh , and then you see the snout kind of shoot out from there. Uh, and you see the rest of his body, like his back just almost just steps out of his skin.

Really. Yeah. 

Craig: He’s all just tendon and muscle and raw 

Todd: and so gross. It’s gross, but it’s great . 

Craig: Yeah, it looks, it looks really good. It’s, it’s a little strange because I was gonna say that it’s not consistent with the transformations of the rest of the time. I, I guess it is really? Yeah. I, I think that the wolf kind of pops out of the human body rather than, the human body transforming into, Yeah.

Uh, but, but this is the only time that we see. Anybody like ripping their flesh off? Yeah. Later we’ll see like their flesh split like at the spine, or we’ll see the wolf snout come out through the human mouth. But this is by far the most gorian graphic 

Todd: transformation. And you know, I think it serves the themes of the story very well because granny is constantly telling her, You need to be careful of wool’s i e Ben, because they’re, it’s like they’re putting on a mask for you.

They’re gonna be all sweet and nice to you until they have you. And then you’re gonna see their true nature, you know, their hairiness on the inside. And so it’s not like this is a Doctor Jacqueline and Mr. Hyde situation where this person is half good, half bad. I think what she’s trying to say is these people are just putting on airs.

They’re wearing the skin of nice, of, of, of humans, but they’re actually wolves in disguise. 

Craig: Well, right. And but granny is basically saying, cuz the girl asks, she’s like, All men and granny’s, like wild, a wild animals. All of ’em. Like, Yeah. Yeah. All men. She’s bitter, all men bitter. They’ll, they’ll be nice to you until they get what they want.

And then you’ll see their true side. And, and she even asks, like, first of all, she kind of watches her parents have sex, which was weird, but 

Todd: also common for the time. , 

Craig: I guess. But ew and I say that, but it’s not graphic. No. I mean, it, it seems like, you know, it’s not some grunting. Yeah. I mean, they even, they’re, they have their clothes, their night clothes on.

It’s, it’s, it’s more suggested than anything else. Um, but it is certainly suggested because the next day she asks her mom, Mommy, 

Todd: yes, pets. 

Craig: Does he hurt you? Does who hurt me? Does daddy hurt you when any, No, not at all. Sounds like, 

Todd: Like what? Like the beast Granny talked about. It’s weird. 

Craig: I don’t know. I don’t know if we’re reading too much into it.

Like is it supposed to be commentary on the relationship between men and women? The nature of men? I, I, I just can’t tell if I’m supposed to take it that seriously or if it’s just 

Todd: a stupid, Well, actually I think it’s a, I think it’s probably more of an exploration of what goes through an adolescent girl’s head when she’s learning about all these things.

For the first. I think it’s very clear. Like she’s sowing this red sha for her. She’s coming into her menstrual period. You know, I, I think that’s what we’re all talking about here. Grandma’s starting to tell her the truth about the real world. We all know, like into the woods, uh, the woods is a sort of metaphor at times for going through the difficulties of life or going through the, the hard changes of life.

Yeah. And all the dangers that be set you. And so this is another part of it is like sex, like learning about sex. Like when you first learn about sex, sometimes it’s like a horrifying, weird thing. And perhaps even more for women because, you know, male females, sex relationship. Yeah. There’s submissive. And so when she sees her dad grunting and, you know, on top of her mom and her mom with her eyes closed and whatever, you know, it, it, she’s not sure what to make of it.

And when you couple that with what grandma said to her, it’s natural for her to even think that the sex act itself might be this, you know, you know, it, it’s just, it’s, it’s creepy for her and. I can relate to that. Yeah. I, when I first learned about sex, you know, I was super confused about it and I wasn’t sure what to make of it either.

And it did seem a little sinister to me too because, well, I grew up in the eighties and I remember everybody was talking about aids and I just thought, I just heard that you have sex that gives you AIDS and so, and you’ll die. Yeah. And so I thought sex leads to aids, that that’s how I first heard and thought about sex.

So I had needed a lot of correction there. I thought it was a bad thing. Yeah. So I think that’s kind of what they were exploring here. Um, I’m sure 

Craig: you’re right. I’m sure you’re right. The whole in Little Red Riding Hood and. Even Little Red Riding Hood in into the woods. It’s very much about sex and, and that kind of, in the original Broadway production of, Into the Woods, the wolf has a prominent penis , like, like he, he, he doesn’t wear pants and he has a prominent penis Oh, wow.

Uh, right there on display. And it’s easy to see that, you know, in the original story as well. I don’t know. It, it, it just, it felt a little bit heavy handed here. Yeah. And I think I was maybe getting a little bit of male fragility, like, Hey, we’re not . Not that bad. We’re not, Yeah. True. But that’s, that’s probably just my insecurities.

I should 

Todd: Well, it is heavy handed . No, there’s no question. I mean, uh, you watched this movie and nothing else, and you just get the sense that all men are dangerous. Really , 

Craig: well, not, not necessarily all men because the dad is good. True. We didn’t finish out that, that, the other story. So eventually this woman, her original husband comes back out of nowhere.

His, he’s got all this long. And he’s angry and, and basically calls her a whore for having children that aren’t his. And that’s when he transforms and it looks like he’s going to attack her, but her husband comes back and chops his head off. Mm-hmm. , Yeah. Chops his head off and it flies into like the wash bucket or something, but when it floats back up, uh, it’s huge.

Todd: Oh. And it’s such a cool effect. Mm-hmm. , it’s slow motion. It happens so seamlessly. It’s so this whole movie is so stylized and that was a great shot. 

Craig: Yeah. And then we cut back to, you know, just rosalyn’s day-to-day life. She goes back home and I was saying, you know, not all the men in this movie are bad.

Her dad is a good guy. Her dad has played by David. Uh, the Waxwork 

Todd: guy 

Craig: Wener, David Werner, who was really aside from Angela Lansbury, I think the only person that I recognized from this movie, except for the guy who plays the Devil Terrence stamp. Oh yeah. He, he makes just a cameo appearance and I’m like, Uh, that’s General Zod.

Yeah. I look, he’s uncredited in the 

Todd: movie. It’s crazy. He’s in everything that I looked 

Craig: it up. Yeah, he’s cool. Anyway, so, so the, the dad’s nice. There’s this boy, he’s hardly anybody in this movie has names. Yeah. Um, except for Rosaline and her sister. But there’s this boy who’s billed as Amorous boy, who is seemingly about her age, maybe a little bit older, but he’s obviously.

Attempting to woo her. I thought maybe you’d take a walk with me in the woods on Sunday after the service. Just a little Wal Rosaline. Why should I, I thought maybe you’d want to, I’ll have to ask, but tell your mother aren’t be with you. I mean, walk straight from the path. Um, and initially their first encounter is very childish.

And then as the movie goes on a little bit, it becomes a little bit more mature and flirtatious. And, um, he’s clearly interested in her. Eventually she becomes interested in him and he seems like a nice boy. Like it seems like the story is setting you up. Oh, this will eventually be the boy that she’ll marry.

Mm-hmm. , which would be fine. . He seems cute and nice, whatever. That’s not the way that the story goes, but yeah, , No, it’s not , but he invites her for a walk in the woods after church and she’s like, I don’t know. I’ll have to ask my parents. And then we. Just get Granny’s second story, . It’s not as clunky as I’m making it sound.

No, it works. It’s stories within a story. Within a story, and I just don’t think that it needs that last outer layer. Mm. I I would kind of have just preferred to live in this world and not have the. Outer world of the reality. But I, I guess I get what he was going for. It just didn’t necessarily work for me.

It’s fine. I’m, it’s not a huge complaint. But anyway, Yeah. Grandma’s second story. Well, grandma’s 

Todd: second story is basically they say the priests bastards often turn into wolves, which , which I think is cute. I, I don’t know if, if this was a different time or what, but you know, priests famously can’t marry, but they’re, you know, they might be having amorous relationships.

Anyway, I, I just think this as funny. So anyway, it says, uh, the priest bastards often turn into woods if they’re born like feet first, and of course their eyebrows meet. And then one day they’ll meet the devil in the wood. And this boy, again, we’re back in this period time, even earlier than granny and this boy’s wandering through the woods.

And this Rolls Royce pulls up . Yeah. It’s so cool. And there’s a guy in the back and, and he’s the devil. Well, and the, the 

Craig: chauffeur. Is Rosaline in a 

Todd: blonde wig? Oh, you’re right. I I wondered about that. I wondered if I was just seeing things. No, it was for sure. Okay, . All right. Fair enough. That’s weird. I don’t know what to make of that either.

So anyway, there’s a man in the back, uh, and he’s holding an infant skull, which I read in the trivia. That was an actual pig me skull that they acquired for the movie, which is creepy. And he is got a little potion and he gives it to the boy and says, Use it wisely. Waste not want not. And the boy seems to know what to do, like he’s made this deal with a devil or something.

Uh, and he rubs it on his chest and he starts growing hair on his chest. And in true evil, dead fashion, the vines of the forest start to crawl up his legs. And uh, I guess that’s the forest claiming him as a creature. I 

Craig: don’t know. I didn’t know what to make of it because he screams as if an agony and his face is all contorted.

But that’s the end of the story. Then it cuts to real life, present day, Rosaline riding around in her bed, and the image of that boy with his face all contorted is in her mirror. Yeah. I, I, I really didn’t know what to make of that 

Todd: story. I didn’t know if it was an adolescence thing. Like the boy comes to adolescence and, you know, goes through all these changes, which can be horrifying and do involve, you know, growing hair and whatnot.

And then, you know, there’s a temptation element in it where then they’re sort of like smitten by the devil with this lust, if you will, for women, which they can use wisely or use in bad ways. I don’t know. That’s, that’s my feminist interpretation of it, . Fair enough. But, but, but it’s funny. She says you can’t trust any, Well, she says, uh, the girls Rosaline back in the back with her grandmother says, That’s a horrid story.

I didn’t like it at all. And grandmother says, You can’t trust anyone, a priest, least of all, he isn’t called father for nothing. 

Craig: what with these lines I. I know I didn’t get it. 

Todd: he’s claiming to be pure and um, and, uh, shape, but actually he’s, he’s out having sex and fathering children, I think is what, what she’s saying, I guess.

But yeah, at this point a mother, uh, grandmother has finished the red s shawl and, uh, she puts it on this girl and it’s a striking contrast with the rest of the scenery, which is pretty drab and, and gray and Uhhuh . This is when now she’s ready to meet the boy and go out on this initial experimentation with him out in the woods by herself, which is interesting the way that the men in her family and around her approach this, her mom is full of, you know, be careful.

It’s dangerous. Don’t stray from the path. Be careful what he might do. And her dad is almost. Yeah, it’s cool. Less concerned, really. Yeah. Boys will be boys. The boys dad as they’re running off, shouts after ’em. That’s my boy, as the grandma shouts af after him. You know, be careful. Don’t straight from the path.

It’s really an interesting contrast brought to light there of, of the way that even these adult men and women treat their, their kids when they’re going through this period. I 

Craig: think. Yeah. I, yeah, So they, so they, they walk and he immediately kind of puts the move on her. It’s. Aggressive in a, a bad way. I mean, he seems sweet and he seems smitten with her and, and he wants to kiss her.

And she runs away initially. But, uh, eventually he kind of teases her and says, What are you scared? And she’s like, No, I’m not scared. So they kiss and um, she runs and he chases and then she climbs a tree and he passes underneath it, but doesn’t see her. And then she finds like a heron’s nest, some big bird up in the tree and in the nest the heron flies off and there’s this, uh, This big wide shot of her, this little tiny red figure up in this super tall tree against like a, a matte painting.

It looks totally fake, but it’s still kind of cool looking. Mm-hmm. , she finds in this nest a looking glass and three eggs, and then the eggs hatch and they have ceramic. Baby Jesus is in 

Todd: them. Yes. What baby dolls? I don’t know, but were they Jesus? I thought they were 

Craig: just dolls. I don’t know. I mean, they, they looked like a baby Jesus from a major.

Yeah. Yeah, they did. But they could have just as easily just been any generic infants. True . 

Todd: It’s weird. It gets very surreal. I mean, there’s no I, Well, 

Craig: right , because then the boy finds a slaughtered cow with its calf like hanging around near the corpse, which I thought was sad and gross. And then Rosalyn on her way back into town, walks right past a wolf.

And the boy comes back without her and a fight breaks out because they think that he’s done something to her. But then she shows back up and she shows her mom the ceramic baby and it sheds a tear. Yeah. 

Todd: like, what? I don’t, I honestly, at first I thought is, are they trying to say she’s pregnant now or something?

Uh, yeah. I wasn’t sure what to make of that either. I’m still not sure what to make. But it, I’m not either. I mean, , there’s no question that as the director and production designer both said that Salvador Dolly was one of their inspirations for the side of this movie. There’s a lot of 

Craig: surreal, and I can see it.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And so the men of the town set up a hunt and they set a trap for the wolf and they dig a a pit, and then they put a duck on top of it as bait and. This was one of the times they used a real wolf, and the wolf approached the duck, but the duck quacked at it and it got scared and ran away. So they had to reshoot it the next day with the different wolf.

I thought that was hilarious, that the duck scared the wolf away. . Right. But in the movie, they actually do capture the wolf and they kill it. And the dad cuts off a paw, I guess, as a souvenir. I don’t know. Yeah. Um, but then the paw turns into a human hand, um, and the rest of the body turned back, uh, human too.

So he throws the hand in the fire while the men are out hunting. Rosalyn and her mom are just hanging out at home and rosalyn’s like, Well, I’ll tell you a story. And that’s when she tells this weird aristocratic story. Yeah, 

Todd: This was, That’s weird. This was the most bizarre, I think of the all, Honestly, I 

Craig: feel like I’ve seen this or something like it before.

I feel like I’ve seen another where Wolf movie. In this time period where it’s like, uh, English powdered faced, powdered wig aristocrats turning into where Wells, I don’t know. Maybe it’s this, maybe I’ve seen this. Yeah. Anyway, tell ’em what 

Todd: happens. Well, uh, they’re just at this wedding banquet that’s in a tent on the grounds, as I said earlier, of the actual house that Rosalie was, is sleeping in, but obviously in previous time.

And, uh, they’re all ch chatting and eating. And the, the couple, the wedding couple is, And, uh, a woman comes walking in from outside and she, she’s not as noble as they are, I suppose. She looks haggard and she’s young and she’s pregnant, and she parades in front of ’em and grabs an apple and spits it out at the groom and starts lecturing them and basically says, So I wasn’t good enough for you.

I was once upon a time, Don’t you remember? Even the wolves in the forest are more decent, and, and she’s, her anger is fierce. She cracks a mirror just by looking at it and, and it seems to cast dispel over everyone. Or maybe it just causes them to transform into their true selves. I’m not sure. But, uh, yeah, everyone starts transforming into wolves while none of the wait staff seem surprised at all, , 

Craig: No.

They actually seem pleased. Yeah. And, uh, like these people are such jerks. They’ve, they’re. Is 

Todd: coming to you. Yeah, I think you’re right. And then when everyone leaves, they pop corks and toes to it. So Uhhuh and the same woman has seen rocking a baby High in a tree, which was cute. Another nursery rhyme nod, I suppose.

Well, 

Craig: yeah. And it said that she forced the wolves then to serenade her every night or something like that. Um, but yeah, it’s a woman scorned, you know, taking exacting her revenge. I actually really liked this scene. I thought the transformation was great and I loved Oh, it was, I loved seeing those dogs jump over the table in clothes.

Yeah. Um, some of them like jumping out of the clothes, some of them still in the clothes and just causing havoc. Uh oh. It’s at that fancy dinner party. It’s shot. So well. It looks really good. Yeah, it really does look good. Mm-hmm. that leads us. Then finally it gets us to the little Red Writing Hood story.

Oh yeah. But then there’s , so there’s the Little Red Riding Hood story, and then there’s a story within that one too. Yeah. . But this gets us, this gets us to the story of Little Red Riding Hood. We know what’s gonna happen. She packs up a bag of goodies for grandma. She’s going into the woods alone. Mom warns her not to stray off the path.

Uh, her little amorous boy offers to go with her and protect her, but she assures him that she can take care of herself. And she, uh, goes out of the woods and she immediately bumps into what looks like an a handsome aristocrat. Um, very well dressed, seemingly wealthy, 

Todd: seemingly from that story we just talked about.

Honestly, I think there’s a bit of a nod to that. Maybe that class of people or something. Yeah. 

Craig: He’s got a uni brow. Yep. So she should know better. And maybe she does. I think that that’s kind of what the movie is suggesting. Mm-hmm. is, I think that she kind of knows Yeah. That he’s a wolf, but again, it’s about burgeoning sexuality.

Yeah. And curiosity. And, and she is curious. And so he says, Let’s go have a picnic. And so they do. And he’s very flirtatious. And she’s very flirtatious back. Um, I mean, I think she basically outright tells him that she’s attracted to him. Yeah. Um, and says that all of the other, all of the boys in the village are so common or, or something like that.

And she’s, she’s enamored with him and they are very flirtatious. He shows her he has a compass and then he grabs her and throws her to the ground in a playful, but physically aggressive way. Mm-hmm. , if she were not into it, Uh, it might be a little much, you know, she could feel threatened, but she is into it.

Yeah. And they’re playful down there. He’s kind of on top of her a little bit. He says, Let’s have a wager. Uh, I bet I can beat you to Granny’s house. And she says, Can I have the compass if I win? And he says, Yeah. And she says, Well, what if I lose? And does he say that she has to give him a kiss? 

Todd: That’s right.

And until then he gives her her his hat as a token of his goodwill until they meet again. Uhhuh . 

Craig: So they go, they, they part ways. And he does arrive at Granny’s house first, and he knocks on the door and she says, Who is it? And he says, A friend. And she says, Okay, well come on in then. And he comes in and she immediately knows Yeah.

That he’s a werewolf. And so they have a short fight. And then Yeah, he knocks her 

Todd: head off. Well, he says to her, she says to him, What have you done with my daughter? And he says, Nothing she didn’t want, Which is right. Pretty true actually. Uhhuh . Yep. And then, yeah, they have this long fight, like you said, and he, he burns her.

It’s not really 

Craig: long, it doesn’t go on very long. She burns his 

Todd: hand with a poker. Yeah. 

Craig: She burns his hand with a poker. Uh, and you know, she does put up a fight. Yeah. But eventually he just not, you know, with. Hand knocks her head off and it shatters against the fireplace as though it had been made of ceramic.

Yeah. Uh, or, or porcelain or something. And there’s never a mention of that again. like Right. . Okay. Was she, I don’t get it, but whatever. Um, she’s gone now and Rosaline arrives and she comes in and he’s not fully wolfed out. I feel like he has the wolf eyes at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And she does the, Oh, what big eyes you have, the better to see you with.

And it’s, it’s playful. And it’s seductive. And eventually he takes off his shirt, Uhhuh , and she’s like, What big arms you have? And he’s like, The better to hug you with. And then eventually he says, What big teeth you have. And she, he says, the better to eat you with in a very, like you said, lascivious, seductive kind of way.

You know, it’s, it’s definitely, um, innuendo there. 

Todd: It’s interesting too, because I expect her to be afraid, but she doesn’t come across as afraid. She comes across as cautious. But like you said, you can, She still, even though he killed her granny , we. Right. I guess we forget about that for a moment. I mean, she knows it’s happened cuz she sees granny’s hair in the fire and uhhuh.

He says, Your kind can’t stomach hair, can you? Even if the wolf worst wolves are hairy on the inside. And, and he takes off her shawl and he 

Craig: tells her and makes her burn it. I thought that was pretty symbolic. You know, we’re leaving childhood behind. Young lady. Yeah. 

Todd: Right. And he asked her, Are you af aren’t you afraid?

And she just says, It wouldn’t do me much Good to be afraid. Now would it Uhhuh and uh, yeah, you, there’s a little bit of I play, but, um, eventually she goes to the window and she seems sympathetic toward the wolves that are howling outside. She says something like, Oh, those poor creatures, they 

Craig: almost kiss at some point.

Mm-hmm. before she goes to the window, they come very close to kissing. And in the original script they did kiss, but because this actress was only 12, they didn’t think that that would be appropriate. Thank God. Yeah. Right. . But that said, it’s still very seductive and, and sexy being that she is. Burgeoning on inappropriate.

Um, because it is very seductive and you, you see this done with vampires all the time. There’s always this seductive nature of vampires. Yeah. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it done with werewolves. No, but it plays out very much the same way and it makes sense. There’s something sexy and erotic about danger,

Todd: E I don’t know, even as a half wolfed out guy. He’s a pretty good looking guy. I mean, Right, right. This is a sexy scene, but she still, there’s twice she tries to kill him. I mean, she whips out her knife a, a knife at one point, which he knocks out, and uh, as she turns away from the window, she’s got a gun out.

uh, and it’s trained on him, and she asks him, Are you only a man when you dress? Like one, like granny says, he kind of pushes the gun aside and mentions to her, You know, you did, we did have this bet. And she’s like, Well, perhaps you did win your bet. You are a gentleman. But they say the Prince of Darkness is a fine gentleman.

But anyway, he, he ends up transforming, uh, after, 

Craig: well, she shoots him. She shoots him. They almost kiss, they come very close, but then she shoots him in the arm and that’s when he transforms. Mm-hmm. . And this is where you get the wolf snout coming out. His mouth and his spine bursts. And so like, well his back along the spine bursts and then he’s a wolf and she apologizes to him and she goes over to him and he’s just sitting there whimpering cuz he’s wounded and she pets him and comforts him.

Yeah. , which was very, I didn’t see that coming, uh, at all. And then she tells him a story, which is really brief, that it’s about a she wolf that came out of the underworld up into their village. It said she didn’t mean anybody any harm, but somebody meant her harm and somebody shoots her. And, uh, so she takes, I don’t know, shelter in the cemetery right outside the church and the minister or priest comes out.

And she turns into a mute wild woman. But the priest takes pity on her, and then she runs naked through the forest, back to the village and like, I guess, returns to the world below through the, Well, it’s a, it’s a strange story and I wasn’t, It’s the first time we get a female. Werewolf. Yeah. And I think that there was supposed to be, you know, the, the female werewolf meant no, no one any harm, but was wounded by a man anyway.

I mean, there’s gotta be some, mm-hmm. something there, but it’s really brief and she just tells it to comfort him when she’s done with her story and we come back to them. The townspeople are approaching the cabins, is that right? Yep, that’s 

Todd: right. They’re, they’re looking for rosaline and a wolf leaps out of the window, which startles the mother.

And when she enters, she sees another wolf inside. But this wolf has rosalie’s cross around its neck and her husband bets in to shoot it, and she says, No, no, no, don’t shoot it. And just, you know, knocks the gun away just in time. Screams out the window for nobody to shoot this wolf as it too leaps out the window and runs off.

I think presumably to join the other. In the woods. Yeah. I 

Craig: think she’s gonna 

Todd: join their pack. And at this point there’s a whole pack. It’s running fast through the woods back first past the toys. And then, uh, like you said, it jumps into modern day, sort of, it comes into the big mansion, but it’s covered in leaves and cobwebs.

Like, uh, not like we saw it, you know, earlier in the framing story. 

Craig: It’s like the world’s collide. Yeah. Like the, like the fantasy of the forest is now in fessing, the house. Mm-hmm. 

Todd: and the wolves come crashing into her room where she’s sleeping into the window and she wakes up screaming and the dolls and glass crash to the floor.

I, I think what this means is basically like her childhood is gone, you know, her childhood is destroyed. Um, and she’s kind of come into this era of womanhood, I suppose, which is complicated. And, you know, the more we talk about it, the more I sort of feel like. The, the story here is that these women, well-equipped this girl for what she had to face.

Like she ended up knowing the dangers that she would have to face, and she did a pretty good job of doing it, and she has her own agency to say. I can deal with this or I cannot let it get the best of me. I, I go back to this line that we didn’t, that we didn’t talk about earlier, but I think it’s really important.

Uhhuh . When you said, Rosalyn asks her mom about her father and asks if her father ever hurts her, and she says no. She compares his grunting to the beast. You know, that her grandmother was warning her about, and her mother says to her, If there’s a beast in men, it meets its match in women too. Mm. Which is a very empowering statement.

And her grandmother has been empowering her, you know, throughout this by telling these stories and giving her knowledge. Uh, and her earlier experience with the boy kind of empowers her so that by the time she meets this danger, she’s ready for it and she kind of wants it, but she’s also able to take control and make decisions for herself and not let the wolf get the better of her.

Craig: Well, that I just think that it’s cool that in the end she embraces her carnal nature. Mm-hmm. like Exactly. She, she, Fear it. She embraces it. Uh, and maybe that’s 

Todd: what the last little story about the Wolf Girl is all about. You know? It’s, it’s, it’s trying to tell us maybe that, you know, it’s not just men.

We’re not talking about only men have this carnal nature, but women, women have it too. Girls have it 

Craig: too. It’s interesting. It’s an interesting movie. I don’t know, I was just kind of scratching my head throughout, like who. For like , It’s not for kids because it, it’s, that’s for sure. It’s, no, it’s certainly not for kids.

But it doesn’t, it’s not typical. It doesn’t fit nicely into any box 

Todd: commercial. Yeah. Right. Which is why I liked 

Craig: it so much. Well, it is the, it’s, it’s definitely unique, uh, and original, um, and, and well made and, and some good performances. Uh, really the, the star of the show is the young woman who plays, uh, Rosaly.

Her name is Sarah Patterson. And again, they were initially planning to cast somebody older, but the director was so enamored with, uh, this young woman and she does a good job and she’s 

Todd: very beautiful. She does. And, and, uh, apparently she was getting offers after this. She did one other movie and then just decided she didn’t want to act.

Hmm. Nobody really knows why She, um, Why she decided, but she just got a family and kids and was like, No, I’m, I’m done. So that, that’s Well, good for her. Yeah. She, she was in a can movie Tale Snow White, uh, in 1987, which I went and looked that up and it looked kind of interesting actually. 

Craig: I, I always like David Warner.

Oh yeah. He doesn’t have a whole lot to do in this movie, but he just has a presence about him that I really enjoy. Mm-hmm. . I was gonna say also, uh, I read somewhere that, um, the sets were very reminiscent of the Hammer films, and I hadn’t really thought about that, but they very much are. Oh yeah. They’ve got kind of that old.

Hollywood Horror Yeah. Feel to them, which is charming. Uh, and I appreciated that. But, you know, we’re here mostly to talk about Angela Lansbury, and she was really fun in this movie. Uh, she was fascinated from the time she was a little girl with cinema and television and, um, during difficult times in her life, um, like when they initially had to move to America to, you know, uh, escape the blitz that was going on in, uh, London.

That was a, a time of struggle for her family and she. Threw herself into, um, movies. She would go to the movies as often as she could, and she comforted herself by trying to create characters or imitate characters that she would see in the movies. And I think that she’s just one of those people that it was just within her, you know?

Mm-hmm. , acting, performing, were just within her nature. At the same time, she was very down to earth. She was married more than once, uh, had a family, was very focused on her family. In fact, in the seventies, um, her kids who were young adults at that time got into counterculture and started using mind altering drugs, and her daughter got involved with the Manson family.

That’s crazy. And that troubled her so much that she uprooted her entire family and her career and moved them. To Ireland, which thank 

Todd: God she did, 

Craig: she right because her children were fine. Uh, her, her son battled addiction, but, uh, got himself clean and his, and, and the daughter, you know, cut ties. Thank God, uh, with those people.

And she almost certainly saved their lives. And, and she just liked, you know, she liked housekeeping. She, she found a pleasure in, in, you know, some of just the simple things in life. And, um, she was a gay icon and, uh, she was liberal and, you know, was very vocal in her support of, of gay rights and, and the gay community, um, which is always appreciated by that community.

And, uh, she just, just seemed like a, a very cool. Talented, humble, gracious lady, and a bright star. You know, again, she just was one of those people that. Brings a smile to your face. She’s just like, Yeah. I mean, I, I, I’m, I’m, I’m getting really heavy handed with it, but honestly, like she’s just like a ray of sunshine in what can sometimes be in a dark and ugly world sometimes.

Todd: Mm-hmm. , you think of like Betty White, you know, very similar. Right. We said similar things about her. Not nobody, nobody didn’t like her. , you know, and every time you see her pop up somewhere. Felt warm, , and fuzzy. Right? She just had that about her and the characters that she played. So, and seemed to have followed that through in real life as well.

You know, it just, yeah, just amazing. And it’s great to, to have people like that that we can look up to. Agreed. And sad that they’re gone. Well, thank you so much for listening to our tribute episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us online anywhere you find podcasts. Just search for two guys in a chainsaw podcast.

Also, please consider supporting us on Patreon. We have a Patreon page at patreon.com/chainsaw podcast. You get a lot of, uh, regular goodies from us there, as well as the unedited versions of our phone calls. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.