Don’t Torture a Duckling (1972)

Episode 277, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: All right. Today was my pick and it is the fall time. And I don’t know what it is, you know, different times of year. I feel like different kinds of movies. And in the fall when things are getting cold and we’re sitting inside, there’s nothing that warms me up more than a nice Italian giallo film.

And so this week I chose Lucio Fulci’s, favorite movie that he’s ever done, Don’t Torture A Duckling, from 1972 and the first film that he kind of resorted to gore. After this movie, he did a lot of gory films, kind of became known for that later on when he did his more, more straight horror films and his other jello pictures.

So here we are talking about this. I know one of Craig’s favorite genres. I know I make no apologies. I love these movies and, uh, I’ve know I’d seen this before, but I completely forgot about it. And so I was really happy to revisit it. Craig, tell me about your long, long history with this film. 

Craig: Uh, you know, I don’t know.

I. The title. I think I’ve surely heard the title before, cause it’s silly title and it kinda stuck with me. The original, the original title is an Italian. Does it translate to don’t torture a definitely. 

Todd: Actually it’s more closely to translate. It’s it’s now I’m sorry. I’m kind of reading Italian. Like I can pretend like I’m reading Italian known wound pepper, Reno.

Would literally translate to don’t torture Donald duck

because apparently in Italian, a Papa Reno is what Donald duck is called. So that makes 

Craig: a lot more sense,

Todd: right? It’s a Disney film folks were, 

Craig: and I can understand why they probably couldn’t use that title, uh, in the states for copyright purposes, but Donald duck doesn’t play a significant role in this film, at least as significant as any other role in this film. That, that’s the thing. That was my issue with this movie.

My biggest issue one, I didn’t find it particularly interesting at all period. And I think that my contributing to that, I think that my biggest problem with it was. There are no main characters in this movie. Like it’s just a series of events with a town’s worth of people. There. There’s nobody really, in my opinion, there’s nobody to follow.

Really. There’s nobody to like root for like odd, 

Todd: you know, I didn’t think about it that way, but you’re absolutely right. It’s very plot driven. None of the characters. Do we really get to know very closely or know much about, and unlike most films really, we’re not following a central character. It is just an entire mystery revolving around a town where kids are dying and, uh, yeah.

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I didn’t even think about that. And maybe, you know, it didn’t bother me though. 

Craig: I in absolutely no way mean this to be pretentious, but maybe that’s kind of the literature teacher in me. Like I’m looking for a protagonist, like who is my hero, or even who is my anti hero. Like I don’t care.

Like I’m, I’m more than happy to follow the killer if that’s who the central focus should be on. That’s fine. Um, but not to say that there weren’t some interesting characters, but even the interesting characters, I didn’t feel like we got to know very well. And so. Yeah. I wasn’t particularly invested in what happened to them.

And then some of the key, some of the characters that like, I guess they play key roles. Like I didn’t even really know who they were. One of the, one of the main characters is this guy named Andre or Andrea Martelli. And like, I didn’t even know who he was like, was he a reporter? Was he a detective 

Todd: dude?

He introduced himself as a reporter in the very beginning. Remember he tried to get into the crime scene and they turned him away. Well, 

Craig: all these Italian guys look the same and I, and, and fair enough, you know, funny enough, no, none of them are like very, it’s an Italian movie. Uh, hardly any of them are actually Italian. Like I still I’ll never get used to. These movies that are, you know, they’re, they’re filmed and Italy, they’re they’re Italian productions, but for the most part, at least it appeared to me that these actors in their delivery were speaking English.

And yet it’s dubbed in English. I don’t get it. I know you’ve explained it to me before. You’ve explained that it has to do with like, it’s cheaper to do the sound mixing and post, and I fine, but it’s just weird. Like it, it doesn’t like. Tiredly pull me out, but it’s just kind of unsettling. Like it’s kind of like an uncanny valley kind of thing.

Clearly they’re saying the words, but it’s also clearly dubbed. It’s 

Todd: weird. I thought for the most part, actually the dubbing wasn’t too bad. I mean, as far as word matching mouth matching, sometimes you, right. It didn’t work. But as far as the acting of the dubbing artists, when I. Too shabby, but you’re right.

This is, this is standard for these Italian films of this era. And whether it be, um, economical reasons or whatever, they would shoot the movies and the most these guys in here speaking English, but a lot of the Italian actors, maybe their English isn’t so good, honestly. Um, I don’t think I’ve ever brought this up on the podcast before, but I’m a full-time voice actor in China right now.

And so I step into the studio and almost every day I’m dubbing something, whether it’s a cartoon or a person and nine times out of 10, believe it or not. I’m dubbing English, actors speaking English, because it seems to be that the. The way they do things here, even though they record sound onset. And I, I listen to these characters lines and they’re perfectly fine.

They’re delivered fine. They may even be Americans or Canadians doing a perfectly fine accent. They still want to scrub all the sound and just get a fresh, nice take in the studio. And it’s either inconvenient or cheaper to just bring in people like me to dub over these folks, then bring in the original actors.

I mean, in this case right now in COVID it’s because a lot of the original actors aren’t available. So that’s one. But another part of it is a lot of times here in order to find these white faces that we need to play the military soldiers or whatever. And these movies they’re Russians, because they have easier access to China than the rest of us.

Especially now it’s easier to round up a bunch of Russian guys to, to run around and, and, and speak. And so even though they can speak English, maybe for the most part, it doesn’t sound like they’re an American and in the movie, this war movie, or whatever, you know, they’re, they need to be sound like American soldiers.

So then they bring someone like me. And so even though some of these Italians in this movie are speaking English, I’ll bet. If you listen to the original sound there it’s pretty poor. So that’s another reason why they might, they might dub it. So I thought, uh, of all of the dubbed Italian films we’ve seen this particular movie was one of the better dubbings, but that wasn’t what distracted me the most.

I’ll tell you what distracted me the most in this movie was, um, Barbara Bush. Which one was, she was, 

Craig: she was, yeah. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: she was she’s beautiful. And then the first time that you’re introduced to her, she is fully nude as a bonus. And not, not long time, just fully nude, but posed like a centerfold intentionally 

Todd: pouring a cold drink over bike down between 

Craig: her 

Todd: breasts.

Right. Actually pretty gratuitous as a matter of fact, but I’m not complaining and I didn’t 

Craig: really get it. Like I appreciate it. Like I looked at her, I’m like, wow, she’s beautiful. And she has beautiful body and, and, and a beautiful face and beautiful eyes. She’s, she’s a beautiful woman. I didn’t even really get it.

Like, what is she doing here? 

Todd: Yeah. She is kind of a central mystery of the film, but that’s intentional, of course, like we’re really not supposed to get a total clear beat on her, but you’re right. Even by the end of the movie, we never really get it. Do we? 

Craig: That’s the other thing I, I told, uh, those of you who’ve listened to any of our podcasts before my partner, Alan is not a big fan of horror.

I was talking to him about this and I said, these movies, they’re not all the same, but they frustrate me in the same way because really to classify this as horror is a stretch, in my opinion, now the, uh, there is some gore and there are some practical effects. Now I would argue that while the practical effects.

Gross. There’s one scene in particular. I don’t want to spoil it yet, but there’s one scene in particular where my stomach really kind of turned. Then some of the others were a little bit corny, but whatever. I still like practical effects. That’s great. Aside from that, it’s not horror. It is a mystery. It’s the suspense mystery.

And I 

Todd: mean, we have this conversation sometimes, but like a slasher movie is one guy going around murdering people. What makes that horror? Whereas in this case, yes, there is also a person going around murdering people. But I don’t know. It’s not as gruesome. It doesn’t have, I mean, what, there are 

Craig: no, there are no, oh, excuse me.

There’s one on screen death. All of the rest of them happen off screen. The thing, another thing that bothers. Okay. So they’re mysteries and I’ve complained about this with these giallo movies before they’re mysteries, but the solution to the mystery is virtually impossible to come up with. On your own, like until like the last few minutes.

And then it’s like, oh, okay. 

Todd: I am totally going to battle you on this because of all of the jello movies and admittedly, you’re absolutely right. They tend to be very obtuse and odd and downright like, uh, a person goes to a library and opens a random book, and that gives them a clue to the next thing I grant you, that this has to be one of the most straight forward and easy to follow mysteries that we’ve seen in any of these films.

I don’t 

Craig: know. Well, I mean, and this is typical of the genre, so it’s difficult to even be critical because I understand going in that this is typical of the genre, but there are so many. Red herrings, like Boleto in your face, red herrings. Like they are clearly trying to get you to think, oh, it’s that guy or, oh, it’s her or whatever.

And then at the last minute they flip it on you and this one now are granted in the last, I don’t know, five, 10 minutes. I was like, oh, well now it’s obvious who it is. But leading up to that last five or 10 minutes, there was new to me, not even a suggestion that the killer was who the killer ended up being.

Todd: Honestly, I had my suspicions at one point, and I don’t know if it’s just because I was imagining there are so many red herrings, like who’s the one, who’s the person I’m seeing the least. So maybe that’s it. But I honestly felt like it’s not that it was projected, but when it was revealed, I said, Yeah. And, and, and shortly before it was revealed a little bit before 10 minutes, I was like, oh, maybe this person actually has a motive and could be it, although you’re right.

There’s no like particular evidence that points in that direction that you could deconstruct until said reveal so 

Craig: well. And, and, and again, like ultimately the person who it ends up being like, it kind of makes sense. I still have questions that I want to talk about when we get there. Like, ultimately it kind of makes sense.

It’s just that there, like you said, it it’s not projected. And so it kind of comes out of left field a little bit, but again, Ultimately in the end, the motive does make sense. It’s kind of silly, but it makes sense. Yeah. But you know, I don’t, it’s, it’s a movie about this, uh, Italian town. I don’t know what to call it a city, a town, but it’s one of those 

Todd: community.

Craig: Yeah. It’s one of those classic Italian, what like villas or, you know, where all of the buildings are super close together, built into like this hillside. It’s gorgeous to look at. I mean, it’s very old school, Italian. I don’t know how to better describe it. Can you help me out? Like, 

Todd: it’s like a, almost like a backwater Italian village where people are maybe a little more traditional and a little more removed from the big city and.

That’s projected early on in, you know, the opening credits show up over a very big wide shot over landscape, you know, the mountains and things. And I thought, actually, this was quite brilliant where the highways cutting through these maps. Right, but you get the sense, this is a remote place and nobody really touches it because even the highway itself is just sort of suspended over the landscape and cutting right through it.

Like nobody’s going to stop there. You know, I thought that was actually pretty brilliant in the opening to really show how remote this place is. Right. I’m just not just remote, but remote from quote unquote, you know, modern civilization. Not that there are, you know, Completely backwards P plays, but it, you 

Craig: know, it’s, it’s, it’s all, you know, it’s not a small town really.

I mean, it’s, it’s these, you know, probably two to three story buildings, but they’re built up a hill, like, so it’s almost like they’re just, they’re all connected and they’re, you know, almost just like stacked on top of each other up this hill, it looks cool. It really is. I mean, it’s, it’s someplace that if you were traveling throughout Europe, you know, it would be a really neat place to visit and, and, and see, because it’s very different than anything that you would see in the states.

Right. 

Todd: And let me just interrupt you by saying, like I’ve said before, this is one big reason why it loved these movies is because I get to see this kind of stuff. And also. In a particular era, you know, several decades ago. 

Craig: Right? Well, I mean, that’s, you know, I, my, uh, I know that you are a world traveler, you’ve lived all over the world.

My experience with international travel is very limited, but, um, you know, just having visited London and, and Amsterdam, and it’s just it, we Americans, those of us who don’t travel extensively. It’s just so interesting to see Europe because it’s so much older. Like my comparison America is such a young nation and the architecture is just so much more modern.

You know, we’re talking about, you know, architecture that’s potentially centuries of years old. And I just remember in London, it was amazing to see modern architecture right next to other structures that were, are, are centuries old. And it’s just something that you don’t experience in the states. So kids.

Travel. There’s a whole other 

Todd: world out there once you’re able, once you get vaccinated. 

Craig: Right, right. Exactly. When the world wind slash, if the world ever gets back to normal take advantage, but it’s, it’s a murder mystery and it starts out with a woman digging on a hill. Okay. Interesting. Whatever. And she digs up a child’s skeleton.

And then we’re introduced to these young boys, young teenage boys, like 12, 13 years old. And there’s three of them, Torino, Bruno and Mikaeli and they get all excited and they’re like, they’re coming, they’re coming. And it turns out that, um, apparently some hookers like come into town every once in a while, 

Todd: big city hookers 

Craig: and set up camp at.

Like rundown place, they call it the haunted house 

Todd: or something. And I quote tits the size of watermelons. 

Craig: Oh. And it’s, it’s so funny because these are more alike, not the eighties hookers from horror movies, but like old school, Italian hookers. So like robust. Middle-aged web.

Todd: That’s a nice way of putting 

Craig: it. Well, see it, but I feel like Europeans, you know, that’s, that’s more their, their style or it was in the seventies. I don’t 

Todd: perhaps in this town anyway. Yeah. So 

Craig: these, these boys go basically just to be kind of peeping Toms or whatever. And, um, we also meet GSMP who is like the village idiot who won, who also much like the boys who he’s probably kind of on the same mental level with, um, just wants to.

Pete

I’ll tell ya. Yeah. Then randomly we see hands because of course it’s a geology flake. We’ve got to get lots of hand shots and these hands making voodoo dolls and whoever this person is pokes the. Needles through the next of these voodoo dolls. And we kind of see the boys react a little bit and eventually those boys all die, but not before McKayla.

This is when we’re introduced to protrudes yet. Now I really don’t understand. Okay. So does Mikaela’s mother work as a housemaid for treats? Yeah. Okay. Yup. Yup. So, so McKayla’s mom works as a maid for this wealthy woman who we know nothing about at this point. But her son visits her and she says, take this, drink up to this woman.

And that’s when we meet her and I’ll let you kind of already described the scene, but I feel like this is way more your demographic.

Todd: This is more my cup of tea. Is that what you’re saying? 

Craig: Correct. Not that I don’t appreciate it. 

Todd: I mean, McKayla comes upstairs and it’s a very well, by the way, this movie is really well shot. The cinematography in this movie is very nice, very inventive. I can’t really say enough nice things about it. And it really, I think stands apart.

Of course, most of these jello movies are. Pretty stylish, you know, and well shot some better than others. A lot of them are just cheap and, and, you know, garbage, but especially, especially full cheek kind of runs the gamut. I mean, we’ve done like the city of the living dead and we thought that was just dumb.

And so keep that in mind. Uh, he brings up, uh, a tray and this woman is for no really good reason, completely nude lounging in this room, in her house. I mean, she’s not like sunbathing or under a heat lamp or anything. This is just the way she likes to be. She’s utterly gorgeous. And her name is Barbara Bush and she is actually a German American actress left Germany under Nazi.

Occupation was raised in the U S was involved in Hollywood for a while, but then I think got a little upset. I mean, like she, she was a model and things like that had no problem doing nude scenes and nude, nude, posing, but, um, eventually kind of was like, eh, she found better work in Italy during this time.

And actually ever since really, probably her most famous screen role aside from doing a lot of these kinds of pictures in Italy was as miss Moneypenny in the 1960s, casino Royale, James Bond movie. So, but she’s gorgeous and she’s laying there completely naked and GSMP comes up to her and is very, um, you know, he’s looking down, he’s very embarrassed by this, but you know, he’s got to deliver her her thing and she’s actually kind of taunting him.

Craig: Um, I put yarn Jade on the table. Oh, McKenny, bring the tray here.

I’m coming. I don’t want to spill it. Oh, yeah. Well, look at me. God, are you obsessing? And

I didn’t think so. How many girls have you had?

I don’t know. You liar. If you said one or two, I might’ve believed you. Ah, but lots is not true. 

Todd: You’re just full of shit in this way. More or less coming on to him, which is really upsetting and unsettling. In fact, full, she was arrested based on this scene because based on child endangerment, he was let go.

Once he kind of showed that he didn’t actually shoot the scene with the kid, they shot scene shots of the kid and then shots of her. And there no shots of them actually together in the same shot. There’s one shot over his shoulder when he’s carrying the tee up. But if you’re, if you look carefully, you can tell it’s actually not him.

It was a body double N a much older person, a little person. Yeah. A little person. So, and I think that’s cute. They didn’t. A little kid in the same room with a nude woman coming on to him. 

Craig: I read that. And I thought like that never would’ve occurred to me. Why is that 

Todd: even a problem today? I don’t know. I don’t 

Craig: know.

Like, I mean, there’s the scene. I mean, it didn’t make me uncomfortable because I don’t know whatever. I don’t care. It’s a movie, but, and, and there’s nothing, you know, nothing inappropriate like happens really between them. I mean, the whole thing is kind of weird. Like why I still don’t get it. Like I don’t get her character at all.

Why is she teasing this boy? Like this, to be honest with me, she, she literally invites him to bed. And now I assume that she was kidding and eventually would have said, ah, just kidding, little boy, get out of here. But really the only, you know, he gets called back by his mom. That’s the only thing that interrupts it.

I just, I, and well, when we say these kids are like young teenagers, Like 12, 13, they are. But as rarely happens in these movies, these boys are played by age appropriate actors. So they look like little boys and it’s a, 

Todd: it looked like 12. Yeah, definitely on the early side of teen. And so, and the boys and uncomfortable and she’s coming on to him and this really is like every kid that age is like wet dream basically.

But you know, somebody interrupts or whatever, she’s like, oh, do you want to, would you like to go to bed with me and all that? And then mom calls him back down. He ends up going down. And this is, she does this a couple times in the movie, which honestly, maybe she is a bit of a pedophile. I, I don’t think that’s out of the question for her character.

Craig: Well, I think that the. Full cheer, the writer, whoever, and did full. She wrote this too. I think he 

Todd: co-wrote it. Yeah. With a couple others, 

Craig: again, red herring, like this woman is weird. This woman is potentially predatory. And like they are setting her up to be suspicious, which is obvious. But then of course, you know, I think she is suspicious.

And so I don’t know what she’s going to do. Like after this, she could do anything and it wouldn’t surprise me. 

Todd: Right. Gosh, I don’t know. We learned that she is the daughter of a well-to-do man who owns a bunch of property in town, but has never actually in town. And she had been away for a long time. I ended up kind of coming back by herself.

So she is an outsider 

Craig: because again, suspicious because she had gotten tied up in some kind of like drug scandal or something. And so her dad had said it would be best for her to lay low. Um, so that’s why she’s here in this small town and she doesn’t fit in, in the small town. 

Todd: Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s the trope, right?

This is part of the thing. It’s the outsider in the small town, the big city girl, who’s a little more, less traditional, little more edgy, you know, coming in, what ends up happening is one of these three boys. Uh, I think it’s the ends up dead. And we, we kind of see this, like he’s being chased by a dog, I think, and a person, but it’s all sort of a POV shot.

And he gets whacked with, with a stick or something and falls down. And the next thing we know, um, they’re all investigating a murder. And so Andre, this reporter comes into town as well as the police and weasels his way in. Uh, as they’re interviewing different people and again, another outsider, right?

It’s it’s the outsiders who have to come in to this small backwater insular town and help solve the mystery of what’s going on, I guess. Right. Like 

Craig: for the, it’s just, it bothers me because this guy, Andre, the reporter or whatever, like he comes in and he seems like he’s going to be an important character.

And he is ultimately, but for the next 45 minutes, he’s really just kind of lingering like in the back. Like he’s, he’s always around, but he’s not really doing anything, but 

Todd: actually I liked that, like, unlike a lot of these pictures that we’ve seen where the reporter comes in and you see these in the American slashers too, like prom night and stuff, where the reporter comes in and he loves sort of becomes the detective.

This guy’s got his place. He’s not there all the time. He’s not buddy buddy with the police man, or he’s not like taking over the investigation or whatever. We see him equally, as much as we see the cops and the cops are, are happy to entertain his views and things, but he’s not like, you know, taking it upon himself to like figure out what’s going on, where the police are going wrong.

No, like everybody’s really quite invested in figuring out this case. And none of them are willing to accept the various, uh, red herrings that we can see a mile away that are coming at them, you know? And actually I thought that was quite refreshing because in a lot of these movies, the cops come in and then the most simple explanation that’s immediately presented to them.

They just go with right. And then that’s it. So then the cops are out of the picture and it’s up to the reporter or, you know, the concerned parent or whoever it is to solve the mystery because the cops are inept. Whereas in this case that that didn’t happen. Yeah. They, they were all just kinda like trying to figure shit out amongst all of them, you know?

Yeah. 

Craig: That’s true. And the police, you know, didn’t seem inept, you know, and they really were genuinely concerned and, and, and trying to solve this thing. The next thing that happens is, um, there’s a ransom call for this boy and it’s kind of a crazy, like they, they whoever’s demanding the ransom, um, asks for an insanely large 

Todd: accountability of the Lira or whatever, how much that was in the seventies.

Right. And. It’s probably 10 bucks who knows, who knows. 

Craig: Right. They set up a sting, uh, and it, and it turns out that the person who demanded the ransom was GSMP the town idiot. And so they catch him easily because of course he’s an idiot. So, you know, as soon as the drop is made, he goes to pick it up and they arrest him right away.

And then they find the boy buried in the woods, but he insists that he didn’t actually kill the boy. He found him and then he buried him and then the cops to deuce, well, maybe he’s telling the truth and he’s just an idiot and thought he could get some money. Um, but he’s the only suspect. And so he’s arrested and the town is virtually rioting outside, you know, the, the jail or whatever, and yelling and screaming at him as he’s brought out and driven out of town.

So there’s so there’s that like? Oh, okay. Well we solve it as GSMP and then. We are introduced kind of to this new character. This woman, uh, March Yara, I think is her name. And she is, as it turns out the woman from the first scene who was digging. Something that turned out to be a very, very small, like a baby skeleton and she’s watching, then they find one of the other boys Torino, an old woman finds him dead in like a public wash bin.

We see more hands burying the voodoo dolls. And I don’t know if this was intentional or not. I feel like it was, I feel like they do this all the time. The hands look very much like men’s hands now. I understand that people come in all shapes and sizes and that women can have large hands and hairy arms.

But like, it seems like there, it seems like they’re intentionally trying to mislead you, which I, I, at the time, like, okay, whatever, this could be anybody. Cause we’ve seen it before. We’ve seen. In these movies, what appear to obviously be men’s hands. And in the past, when we’ve seen these movies, they have been, they’ve often been the director’s hands.

Um, but in the movie, it turns out they belong to a beautiful woman which ends up happening. Here too. 

Todd: Yeah. The thing I like about this movie honestly, is that okay, first of all, I’ll say, I think it was too slow. It could have been 30 minutes shorter and I would have, if it were 30 minutes shorter, I would have liked it a lot better.

It really, really takes its time. And so that’s my first criticism as great as a cinematography is. And as easy to follow as the plot is, and honestly, I feel like it unfolded really in a very logical and believable manner. Nevertheless, it was a little slow, but we see a reveal eventually. And I liked this bit about it.

Like we see these hands bearing the dolls, but they don’t keep that a mystery for too long. You know, we, we see that this woman is actually the one bearing the doll. So you’re like, okay, like she’s got this vendetta against these boys at the very least, but. You’re also thinking, well, they’re not going to reveal the killer like this early on.

Right. So whatever she’s doing bearing these dolls, like, she can’t be the only piece of the puzzle. Right. But there’s also a priest who comes kind of in almost like Jesus when they uncover the body of the first boy. And oh yeah. That was weird. You was weird. And he’s got like a couple kids in tow group of them.

It’s like, they’re all like hanging around him. And he comes in and he like says some, you know, something over the corpse and whatnot and leaves. And then the reporter interviews him. And this guy’s really good looking. And he’s a pretty young, handsome priest. And they have a conversation in the town about the town, which I thought was, was nice.

And it works well towards the theme. Worried 

Craig: much about their immortal souls. They watch TV go to the movies. They read the papers with all the scandalous photographs, but you’re a reporter, aren’t you? Yes. I work for. Things like this happen and the world is shocked. You look for a culprit, but no one ever asks if the comfort is no, it wouldn’t be liberalism.

What can a poor priest do? Oh, I’m a friend of the news vendor and certain magazines aren’t sold here. In fact, they don’t even get here that he wants to protect them from vulgarity and temptation and stuff. And so like, and you know, he, he really seems like he’s, he’s young and he works with these, um, young boys.

Like, I think he’s like organized like a soccer league. It seems like to keep them occupied. So they’re not getting themselves in trouble. Uh, and he is, he is young and he is very handsome and, uh, you know, it, it seems like. Really seems like a really good guy. Like he really is trying to protect these people, uh, and, and protect these kids and look out for these kids.

I don’t know. I don’t remember how far we got McKayla. The movie makes it, see somebody calls McKayla late at night that he’s the last of the three boys. Somebody calls him late at night and says, sneak out of your house. Uh, and he does. And the 

Todd: movie he’s in the middle of the way of like he’s drawing boobies and he’s 

Craig: there.

And 

Todd: he was doing on the boards. Yeah. It was really weird. Just like kids thing, I guess. Yeah. 

Craig: So he does, and the movie makes it look like. It’s Patricia, that calls him. And he’s the one. Right? And he’s the one who has already had that experience with her. And so he goes out and he’s like running through their woods and there’s somebody following him like an old man with a size.

And he hides from the old man and the old man passes him by. And then he’s waiting in a particular place, like next to this crucifix. And we get a POV shot of somebody approaching him. And as this person approaches him, he smiles as though he recognizes the person and then his face gets very fearful and then he gets killed.

Uh, 

Todd: all these people, all these kids are more or less strangled, I think. Right? 

Craig: Yeah. They are like, they might be knocked out first or they might appear like one of them appeared to have drowned, but they think that maybe he was actually strangled and then just put in the water. Yeah. They think it’s strangulation for some reason.

Patricia gets questioned by the police. I don’t remember why we see that it is mochi Yara, who has the voodoo dolls, and then we’re at Mikaela’s funeral and we’re introduced to some other random woman who like is mysterious in the town. Her name is, uh, realia abalone and she’s the priest’s mom. And she also has another little girl named Malvina, who they say over and over again is retarded.

Now we don’t really use that. I don’t know that that’s even necessarily like a medical diagnosis anymore, but she she’s deaf and dumb. She can’t communicate. And we’re like, okay, random. But of course she’s pivotal later, but at the funeral, um, McKayla’s mom screams. The killer is here with us. I know it. And both Patricia and matchy are a look, all shade.

And mochi are a runs away. And then, like I thought this was one of the coolest parts of the movie in Italian on the screen. It says in act one, and then it says, act. Yeah. Like, all right. 

Todd: That was interesting. Right. And there was never an act three was there. It was cool. I mean, it just marked a turning point of the movie.

That was odd though. I’ve never seen that before, 

Craig: neither, but it is. I mean, it’s appropriate because then the movie takes a totally weird turn. The police have been watching the funeral, so they see mochi are run out and they think that’s suspicious. And one of the cops, the local cops, I guess like, oh yeah, that’s just much Yara.

Everybody thinks she’s a witch, but only because she lives out in the woods with old Francesco the magician.

Todd: Right? So 

Craig: the cops visit old Francesco, the, the 

Todd: magician. Who’s also shady. 

Craig: He’s totally shady. And who was the old guy in the world? Like chasing the boy he’s carving what look like voodoo dolls. And they’re looking for much yard. He says, I haven’t seen her in two weeks. I don’t have any idea where she is.

Um, excuse me. I say 

Todd: crap literally says that

it probably sounds better in Italian

Craig: so the cops don’t know what to think about that. They they’re still looking for much Yara, but as they’re leaving, they see Patrice SIA arrive at old Francesco, but they don’t do anything about that yet. Then some woman, I think it’s supposed to be a real. Yeah, it calls the cops and says, she knows where much Archie Yara is.

And they, they go where they’ve been told to go and it’s like a cave and they find the cave. She is runoff. They find her baby’s skeleton and the cops like, oh yeah, that must be her devil.

Todd: You’re absolutely right. This is, yeah. This is a weakness of,

oh, by the way, there’s. The story about this girl at her devil babies. So apparently much Yara and Francesco had a thing. And, uh, she got pregnant and 

Craig: so they sent her to him because she had the devil inside her and then he’s, and then he says, and somehow he got the devil out of her, but she also got pregnant.

Todd: She also got a little him insider,

but you know, to be honest, like. Small towns are full of this stuff, right? It’s just rumors and an old stories and like gossip about everybody in this guy and this woman and all these things, I felt like in the telling of these kinds of ridiculous things, it did paint a picture again, that has been reinforced throughout the movie of this backwater Italian insular town, where everybody knows everybody’s secrets, you know, like how 

Craig: could this kind of generations upon generations of people and yeah, I mean, yeah, I get that.

But uh, eventually the cops, they find her and they. And she confesses immediately to the murders. She says that she killed them. And her reason was that they had disturbed her son’s grave, which was where she had been digging in the beginning of the movie. And she had caught them doing it once. And she had warned them that if they did it again, she would break them.

Um, but then like she also just kind of offhandedly admits that she didn’t physically kill them. She had asked the old magician. How to do it. And she had used the dolls and then in explaining all of these, she goes completely crazy and starts screaming, convulsing and foaming at the mouth. And when she wakes up, she explains like the ritual that she did and it had to do with the voodoo dolls.

And there was a whole thing about it, but she says, um, you have to call on these devils. And there are 13 devils and they infect somebody by going into their mouth. And then that person actually does the killing and she says, it can be anybody, a man or a woman. So then I’m thinking, you know, like who, who 

Todd: got.

Devil mouth devil mouth

Craig: I’m 13 devil’s came in somebody’s mouth and

Todd: Greg, I, that feels like another movie I’ve seen before

more modern. But, but honestly, the thing I liked about this was that the whole time, as I said before, I feel like the cops are appropriately skeptical. Like they’re not really taking anything at face value, even when this woman, even when Giuseppe w Eva, when these people sort of couldn’t confess to the crime, they’re always kind of like, yeah.

Do you really think so? And that was really refreshing. Like, you know, they, weren’t the stupid cops who think they closed the case every second, you know, it felt more real because of that, because these cops, they know the town, right? Like they know these people, they’re a part of it. And they’re part of it yet.

They’re somewhat detached from it. Like they’re quite critical of the town. I feel like it’s the character of the reporter from outside, right? The big city reporter comes in for the big city newspaper who talks to the cops about it. And they sort of have to explain to him, look, these are sort of simple people.

They’re all these like rumors and all these sorts of things. And, and it’s just a little different from what you’re used to. Like the cops know that half the people they’re talking to were kind of crazy, you know, 

Craig: And, and crazy mochi Yara, you know, they’re like, oh, so you just did a spell. Okay. So they let her go.

And, uh, she is, you know, like the towns, women are spitting on her as she’s walking down the street, she ends up, I think she’s headed back to her cave. I don’t know. But she, uh, she ends up, you know, walking by the cemetery where she’s confronted by these men. And I assume that these are townsmen. I didn’t recognize any of them.

Why was the 

Todd: father of the Bruno? That’s what I thought. I thought these are 

Craig: probably, at least some of them are probably the fathers of the boys that were killed. Um, and this is the scene that I was talking about. She can’t get away from them. Four or five, six of them. I don’t know. And her hand gets slammed in a gate and her knuckles get all scraped up, which, you know, sucks.

But then she’s brutally beaten by them and the effects look really good and disgusting, but probably I wouldn’t go with real, not realistic, like, like, like her injuries are even more. Upsetting and, and gross then they probably realistically would be, 

Todd: um, but read in that bloody 

Craig: and like right in there, oozing like blood and puss immediately.

And I have to say, it really did. As far as practical effects are concerned, it looks really good. And it really did kind of turn my stomach. 

Todd: Look, I thought this was the most disturbing scene in the movie. I mean, yeah, I actually, I thought it was a brilliant scene. You, you can see it coming a mile away.

She’s walking there. She sees these guys on the horizon. She’s kind of goes into this little cemetery area, which is enclosed and there’s this dude up on the, on the hill. And he turns the car radio up really, really high to the song. And you’re like, oh shit, these guys are going to beat the hell out of her.

And they do, but they approach her slowly. It takes its time. She knows it’s coming and they’re, it’s, they’re also sort of joyless about it. You know, it’s like, you can see in their faces like this is, I mean, it’s vigilante justice, you know, it’s we’re we got to do what we got to do. We’re not happy about it, but you murdered our children and this, the cops aren’t going to do anything about it.

So we’re going to do something and there’s a chain and there’s a thing. And it is it’s effects aside. It is brutal. And it’s heartbreaking, especially, especially when you consider this. Has been through a lot of shit herself. Like she lost a child she’s grieving. I mean, she’s crazy, but she doesn’t deserve what’s coming to her and they hit her and it really bothered me.

And I thought it was also quite telling that in this movie, the full, she, of all people, this is one of the two scenes that he chooses to really dwell upon the gore. Right? Like you said, everything else is like off screen. The kids are getting killed and other, and like, we don’t see it really, but this, we see in gruesome detail, uh, slowly, and it, God, it lasts at least five minutes.

It’s, it’s hard to watch 

Craig: way. Like I thought surely they were going to kill her. And ultimately they do because she succumbed to her injuries, but they. You know, like they don’t ensure that she’s dead before they leave. So I don’t even know if it was necessarily their intention to kill her. I 

Todd: don’t know.

Um, I feel like they wanted a torch her in a way like, oh my God, it’s an execution really. 

Craig: Right. But she’s not immediately dead. She ends up, uh, crawling her way to the highway and, and all these cars pass by. I think some of them, 

Todd: no, that’s the other thing. Right. She looks up at these cars and some of them clearly see her and just look away.

Like nobody gives a shit about her. That was the worst part that was like the icing on the cake. And then one of the last bits she sees, looks in the car and sees children in there. And I’m 

Craig: pretty sure one of them was Malvina wasn’t it? You’re right. 

Todd: You’re right. But like, my God, like in that second, I was just like this woman, this.

Woman. She lost her child now. She’s, she’s been beaten by these people. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody’s going to stop for her. She sees his children in the car and it was like, oh God, man, that was hard. That was a tough scene. 

Craig: It sucks. Um, it does. I don’t know it well, and that’s the thing, but that’s the thing.

Like, we don’t really get to know her enough. Like she’s gorgeous. She’s 

Todd: a crazy person as far as we’re concerned. Right. That’s 

Craig: it right? Like she’s just this crazy lady. We that’s all we know. Then there’s a whole scene where Martelli the, uh, reporter meets Patrizia the Vixen on the street and Patrizia has a scene with Malvina Malvina the little new girl is walking around with a headless doll, which I thought was weird.

And Patricia is like, oh look, your dolls lost its head. And the she and the reporter has to explain to her that Malvina, doesn’t understand what she’s saying because she’s deaf and mute and slow and. But Patricia is like, oh, well, I’m going to go get her a new doll. And, and then, you know, the reporter in poetry to kind of make a connection, but it’s really brief.

And Patricia goes to get Malvina new doll, but she like grabs her by the wrist and starts pulling her away. And Malvina is clearly scared of her. Like this stranger lady is like dragging you somewhere. But again, I just felt like, oh, Uh, shady Patricia, what’s going on. Um, then we cut to these two young boys who are on their way to the hooker house.

Todd: One of them gets cold feet, 

Craig: right. But the other one basically calls him a pussy and uh, keeps going. So the other boy goes back and he’s acting all Solomon morose on the soccer field. And, uh, the, the priest comes out and the other boys confessed. What are you talking about? He went to the haunted house alone.

Then Alberto, the boys go there because, because certain females go there. You’re just boys, 

Todd: boys not ask. 

Craig: He goes, yeah, that’s all I told him not to go. Cause he might get glued by the cup, by the monster. That’s what I said. I swear that he said there wasn’t any more stuff. He said nothing would happen because my shadow is dead.

The mud, the murders day. How stupid can you be? People commit an act of folly 

Todd: and there’s the result. 

Craig: My idiot. Isn’t scared of going all the way up there because my child is dead and buried. Peanut. No one’s ever been killed because of magic. No one it’s all nonsense. He goes to look for him. 

Todd: And this is the point by the way, this is the point where I started to think, okay, something’s going on 

Craig: here?

I, I didn’t because, and I have to, I guess I have to give, I should know better. I should know better when. These Italian filmmakers are making things so pointedly obvious that it’s a mislead because Mario comes across, Patricia is car that has a flat tire. She asks him if he knows how to change a tire.

And he says he does, and she says, I’ll pay you. And he asks if she has like a Jack or something like that. And she’s like, would you rather be paid with money or with a kiss? And literally like the split second after she says that we see his dead body face down. Oh, in like 

Todd: a Creek in a movie that’s full of fantastic transitions.

That was a great transition. 

Craig: And see, but I feel like from this point on, it felt like they needed to make the movie go faster because the editing started getting so choppy, like. Scene scene, scene, scene, like, and it would, it would cut from one scene that didn’t really seem to necessarily even conclude into another scene that it felt like we were picking up in the middle of something like in the middle of a conversation.

It was a little bit jarring. Now, maybe that was intentional. I don’t, well, 

Todd: this particular cut was very jarring, but that was certainly intentional because I thought it was very impactful. Do you want to, do you want to pay me, you know, do you want me to pay with the money or would you like a kiss boom and musical cue and the kids face down in the water and the CR the woman’s gone and the police are pulling his body up and I’m thinking of, okay, so here’s the deal like a whole lot of stuff went down.

In that split second, right. Something happened between her and him. She’s now gone. The priest was on his way there. And what came about that. And then the cops are talking and they say something about how the priest found him in the water. And they’re like, well, do you want to talk to him? Like, well, once the media gets done with him, cause he’s surrounded by them right 

Craig: now.

And I was like, well, the priest is there and he’s like crying over the body and stuff. 

Todd: Really? I 

Craig: think, I think so. Um, cause it was the priest found him. 

Todd: That’s how the, but we were alerted. No, no. 

Craig: We just saw when the cops arrived or when. And then, you know, I feel like quite a bit happens like the, uh, uh, the reporter finds a lighter at the crime scene.

He takes it to Patricia and says, I found your lighter. And she’s like, oh, thank goodness. It was crazy 

Todd: expensive. Same time he’s been, uh, in her house. It’s one of those classic scenes where he’s getting in her house before she is. And he’s looked at her table and found a book of magic on there. Right? 

Craig: Yeah.

I didn’t, I don’t speak Italian. So I didn’t know what the book 

Todd: was. It was something, something Magica, uh, Craig, just, just to let you know, I know I don’t speak Italian either, but 

Craig: the police are still interested in for treats yet, even though they don’t know anything about the lighter at the crime scene, they, they found holes in her story about the night that McKayla died and she tells, uh, the reporter.

She didn’t have anything to do with it. She swears. And um, so then like the two of them like pair up, like they’re going to investigate it now and randomly there’s a picture of what, what would you 

Todd: call it? Like, yeah, like a, like a, like a vigil type of like, um, like, you know, when, when P when somebody dies by the side of the road and everybody piles of flowers there, something like that.

Right. 

Craig: Right. And Patrizia notices the head of Donald duck and she’s like, oh my God, I bought that little dumb girl, a Donald duck doll, and that’s its head. And they’re like, well, let’s go back 

Todd: to find the rest of the doll. Yeah. That didn’t make a lot of sense. Right. Like, I didn’t quite catch the significance of that.

Like there, I think what it turns out to be is they’re suspicious thinking the girl was at the scene. Uh, you know, at some point when the body was right, when the person was killed, when the boy was killed by the basin somehow, but the timing doesn’t add up and that’s a big stretch, I mean, right. 

Craig: Well, and they, and they go there and they don’t find the Donald duck, but they do find another headless doll and 

Todd: like just, well, they find it ahead of the doll she was carrying around.

Yeah. 

Craig: And the conclusion that they come to is that she must have witnessed the murder, which was a strangulation. And she tried to emulate it with her doll, but she popped the doll’s 

Todd: head off. Yeah. It’s a bit of a stretch. Right. 

Craig: And they’re like, oh, look, she lives right there, which is like, just across the street.

And remember she’s the younger sister of. The priest and the daughter of the mysterious, a really a lady. So they go over there and they talk to the priest and the priest is like, oh my gosh, that’s really interesting and weird. And we need to figure this out. But the mom is like, it couldn’t have been her because the murder happened at night.

How do they know that? I don’t know. And she’s like, and we lock the doors at night specifically so that she can’t go out. So they don’t know. But, uh, they go like the, the reporter and Patricia go back to her place to like, think about it. And S and the priest calls them and is like, have you seen my mom?

And Malvina cause they’re gone. And they’re like, no, we haven’t seen them. So now they think that the mom has something to do with it. And that she’s probably taking the little girl to kill her so that she can’t like implicate or tell her. Yeah. So they go looking for her and apparently know to look for her in these Hills.

And, uh, she is there. She is leading the little girl up the hill they’re in pursuit. Um, and the next thing we see is like they’re hiding or realia and Malvina are hiding in like this stone little cabin or something. And the priest comes in and that’s when I figured it out. I didn’t really understand the motive that I’m like, oh, it was the priest obviously.

And the priest grabs the little girl and there’s a scuffle. I mean, it’s still not entirely like you think you could think maybe the priest is there to try to save his sister from his crazy mom, but we really don’t even know enough about his mom to know why she would have any motive. Either. There’s a struggle.

He takes the little girl out and he carries her towards this cliff and he’s going to throw her off the cliff, but. The reporter and Patrizia intervene. There’s a big fight, you know, and it goes on for a little while, this, this big fight, but eventually the priest gets thrown off the cliff

Todd: and, and he falls down the cliff. Now I’ve got to say, I admire the attempt at making the priest’s death pretty gruesome and probably for the time and with the budget they had to work with or whatever this was the best they could pull off. But it ends up looking really hokey, 

Craig: really hokey, like before, before he even hits anything.

Like, as he’s just flying in through the air, it’s clearly. Uh, dummy and like his, his face. Yeah. His face already looks off and yeah, it’s weird. And then he starts hitting every rock on the wall of where is cliff and his face is getting ripped off. I agree with you. I appreciate the attempt. And you know, as far as practical effects go, it’s really not any worse than some other things that we’ve seen in these kinds of movies, but it’s in broad daylight.

And I mean, it’s obviously, and, and the dummy, the dummy is just flopping around in a totally inorganic way. It’s pretty silly. But then the motive is explained. He said before, actually he explains it before he gets thrown off the cliff. He says, these little boys are little. My brothers, I love them and I want to protect their virtue and the only way to protect their virtue and save their souls is to kill them before, before they can tarnish their souls through sin.

And like, it seems like he. Feels that way. And we get flashbacks of like the boys, you know, going to the hooker house and stuff like, and that’s the whole reason that he set up the soccer league. And like, in his mind it just seems legit. Like he’s really trying to do that. There’s even a scene after he dies of all of the dead children in all white playing soccer.

And he in his priest robes walks up to them and they all surround him and hug him. It’s a very Christ like image. So it seems like for whatever reason, he legit thought that he was doing something righteous, but obviously he was just crazy. Now my question is, is the implication that 13 devil’s came in his mouth.

Todd: I need to know. Honestly you point out like, uh, I don’t think so. I mean, this is, to me a weakness of the plot, which is pretty typical of these geologists has long this big stretch. Okay. Maybe there was some actual magic at play, perhaps there was, but this guy’s got a motive that stretches straight into his personality.

Right. So I don’t really think so. So the issue I have with that is this red herring of this woman who happens to have a beef with three of these boys and. Pokes through these, you know, goes to the magician, gets his, gets her voodoo dolls, buries them. And then these three boys happened to be the next three boys that the priest kills.

That is a huge coincidence, right? Unless like you said, you can explain it by the magic. Maybe that’s exactly what happened is that she, the voodoo activated the priest and then he went crazy and started doing this. 

Craig: It would still be a big coincidence. However, we know from the very beginning that those three boys were engaging in behavior that the priest would see as indecent.

So if he was aware of that and it just happened to be those three boys, because they were honoring that they got mixed up with. Marciana and he knew that they were doing stuff they shouldn’t be doing. It makes sense. It’s still a pretty big coincidence, but it does make 

Todd: sense. It could happen. And that’s good enough really, to the plot of a movie that we’re watching for entertainment.

I’m sorry. I really enjoyed this movie except for the fact that it was a little long. Like I was checking my watch about an hour and 20 in, and it’s an hour and 48 minutes. I think it could have been shortened by about 30 minutes. It didn’t need to be quite so slow, but actually I was pretty engaged with the plot because unlike a lot of the other jello that we watch, it’s quite easy to follow and it actually makes sense most of the time.

And I was pretty proud of myself for actually kind of seeing the killer coming. I even kind of figured out his motive really. I felt, oh, this priest is somehow trying to protect the purity of these boys. And I mean, because it’s kind of thrown in our faces for a while that these boys. So horny, but I mean, that’s not atypical boys, but it’s a, it’s a, it’s a major, you know, element of the movie.

And then next to that, this whole conversation about the town and the town being kind of very, very concerned about the purity and the conversations the priest has. I think at that moment, I, I think I was able to put two and two together and I was like, yeah, I think it might actually be that guy that we haven’t seen for most of the film, but he has a better motive than probably anybody else to do this you’re right.

That, and I didn’t even think about it that there’s not a central character in this whole movie. And that’s, that’s really interesting actually. And the woman is still ends, ends the movie. Okay. She’s not implicated in anything, but she’s still pretty fricking mysterious this like sex plot woman who’s coming on to little boys.

Uh, but again, I just enjoyed watching it. I really, really enjoy. The atmosphere being able to follow the plot, kind of being able to more or less figure out who did it. And again, the cinematography was great. It was well filmed. I think it was well acted and honestly, a little refreshing to see this plot that seemed more realistic to me than most of the others where the cops are appropriately skeptical at every turn.

They know, this town is weird. They’re not willing to really willing to buy anybody’s story. And so they’re always kind of keeping an eye open to the, to the next possibility and pursue that lead. And it wasn’t like the reporter came in and solved the whole mystery for everybody. I mean, he kind of figures it out at the end.

He’s kind of a key figure in, in, in, in, at the end, but it’s not because he’s smart and everybody else is stupid. You know, he just happens to be at the right place at the right time. I mean, it was just really nice. I really enjoyed it and I can see why full cheese says this is his favorite film of his entire career.

I think it hit good notes. Was it perfect? No, the effects were a little silly, uh, at times, but I. Yeah, 

Craig: I didn’t, 

Todd: well, neither did the Catholic church. The movie was originally released obviously in Europe and, but it had a very limited release because of the subject matter. Um, they were more sensitive times.

And so, uh, because it dealt with these themes of the, of the priests and the Catholic church and whatnot, like it was kind of blacklisted and it never even was released in the states. Uh, it wasn’t until it was available on 

Craig: TV or 

Todd: something. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So. Crazy, right? Yeah, it 

Craig: is. It really is. Cause it’s really not all that offensive.

No, I mean, it, it just happens that the bad guy is a Catholic priest. Like it’s not really because you 

Todd: know, it’s not really Catholic religion. Right, right. 

Craig: Just so happens. But whatever. Yeah. No, I, I didn’t love it, but you know, I just am not a huge fan of these types of movies that being said, you have made me watch a couple that I have ended up enjoying opera comes to mind.

I think I liked that one. Um, And there have been some other ones, uh, that I’ve been intrigued and surprised by. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s just not my favorite genre, but you’re right. I don’t disagree with you. I, I think that it’s not poorly made it’s the acting is fine. It’s competent. And if you are a fan of these types of movies, especially full CI, I guess you should check it out because he says it’s his favorite of his movies.

It’s I didn’t particularly care for it. Like I agree with you. I think it was too long. I was kind of bored. I just so many red herrings at some point, I’m just rolling my eyes like, oh, come on. Jeez. Um, but whatever beautiful women. The priest was hot. 

Todd: It was a little something for everybody. 

Craig: Yeah. I wouldn’t go so far as to say I hated it, but just not my cup of tea.

That’s all 

Todd: fair enough. Fair enough. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. We would love to hear what you think about giallo movies. Should we do a few more? I I’m. I have a short list. It’s shorter than Craig realizes of Jell-O movies that I want to subject him to before I’m done with the torture and I have to find another way to torture him here on this show.

Uh, find us online. If you just Google two guys and a chainsaw, you can find our Facebook. Our website and our Twitter feeds and leave us a message in any of those places. Let us know what you think of this episode and any other films you would like to do in the future until next time. I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.