The Witch (2015)

Episode 25, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd:  Welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Today’s film was The Witch. It’s out in theaters now. Craig and I thought we’d go have a look at it and come back to you today and let you know what we thought. Craig, did you read anything about this movie before you went to see it? 

Craig:  Really nothing at all. I mean, I kind of had a basic idea of the premise. I knew it was a period piece, set in colonial New England and that it dealt with a witch. Yeah. That’s about it. That’s all I knew. And I’d I’d read some kind no. I didn’t read them.   I mean, I saw headlines praising it. I didn’t really see anything, and I didn’t read into it because I didn’t want to know too much going in, but it seemed like what I was seeing out there was positive response. So Yeah. Looking forward to it. 

Todd:  It it the headlines I’ve been seeing have been almost on the same lines of it was writing a little bit of the reception of the Babadook 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And, It Follows. Both of those got these glowing, it’s not your typical horror movie Right. Reviews. And so that made me a little hesitant going in here because I know that both of those films, I was a little disappointed in. Were were you? 

Craig:  I well, you know, especially with yeah. I was. And I think especially with, the Babadook, I think the problem was that I had seen so much positive stuff about it that I had really high expectations. And I I thought I thought it was good. I just thought I don’t know if it’s really worth all the hype. 

Todd:  You know? I mean, it’s different enough. And this movie so I intentionally much like you, I guess, I intentionally stayed away from those thinking that maybe if I don’t read too much about it and get too excited about it, it will turn out to, you know, move me in a way that I’ve never been moved. And? And, you know, it was, I don’t know. The movie is pretty slow. If I had one fault, I would say maybe it was a little too slow. Although, I’m not sure that you could do this movie any other way. Extremely slow burn, very depressing. 

Craig:  Yeah. Really grim from from the beginning on. 

Todd:  Yeah. Well, we might as well dive into the plot, I guess. Yeah. 

Craig:  And the plot itself is pretty simple. I mean, you start out, I I guess, in a Puritan courtroom, town meeting house or whatever, and it appears that this man is being tried or or sentenced or or something. And, they say that he’s a blasphemer or he I isn’t It’s 

Todd:  very unclear. 

Craig:  It’s yeah. It’s totally unclear. And he’s defending himself saying, no. I’ve never spoken anything but the true word of God. I believe in God. You all have no right to judge me. You’re false Christians. 

Todd:  Yeah. He he throws it right back at them, basically. 

Craig:  Right. And, when it comes down to it, I guess they basically just say I don’t know. I don’t know if they you know, if he hit with 

Todd:  He almost volunteered that he would be willing to just leave. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And they were like, well, okay. If that’s what you wanna do, go ahead and do it. And so he they said you’re vanished from the community. 

Craig:  Yeah. And so he takes his family. He’s got his wife okay. So the the dad’s name is William. His wife’s name is Catherine, and they’ve got 5 kids. Two older kids, Thomas and a daughter Mhmm. Caleb, a son, and they seem to be around the same age maybe. Is Thomas and the oldest, you think? 

Todd:  It seems like it. Yeah. 

Craig:  But close in age. And then there are twins who are younger, I would guess, maybe, like, 8, something like that Yeah. And, a baby, Samuel. And the twins are, Jonas and Mercy. They, I guess, just go and establish their own little farm kind of on the outskirts of town. Like, at one point in the movie, the dad says it’s like a day’s, ride to town. So they’re out kind of in the woods on their own, and that’s it. I mean, the whole movie focuses on what happens with this family out here on their own, and they’re really the only characters that we well, aside from the witch Yeah.   You know, the only characters we really see for the the whole movie. 

Todd:  It seems to set this tone for the film that we’re going to be dealing a lot with themes of exile, themes of being alone, themes of being away from society, outside of society. There’s that shot as they’re leaving, which is a point of view shot of them. The the girls are just sitting on the back of this wagon that is slowly leaving out of Todd, and you see as they’re leaving there, they see the streets, and it’s just the backs of people, walking away from them, walking up the the hill or whatnot. Some Indians come into view and they Native Americans, and they’ve come and they’re walking, you know, up Todd, and they kinda turn turn their heads a little bit and watch them, but then keep going on their sense, a very visual metaphor for turning their back on these this family as they lone you know, in a very lonely way go out into the wilderness. And in a sense, I felt that was that put them in a very similar situation as the witch. Right? Right. The witch turns her back on society and goes out into the woods. And these folks are at that precipice where they set up their homestead, basically, on the edge of the woods.   Right. It’s like right at that point between civilization and the dark scary wilderness, and they set that up very quickly. Remember with those there’s just this these long shots of the woods Yeah. With very ominous music, but nothing going on. Right. 

Craig:  Yeah. And it sets up, you know, the idea that they’re isolated. They’re on their own. So any problems that they encounter, they only have themselves to rely on. You know? There’s there’s really no help. Like I said, the the village is, you know, I guess, within reachable distance, but they’ve been exiled. So they would have to be pretty desperate to seek solace or help from the people who have just banished them. So they’re really, it it’s desolate, and they’re alone.   And and the way that the film is shot even really holds to that tone. I mean, it it feels very puritanical. Everything is really simple, really dark, really, you know, all the colors are are you know, there’s no bright colors. Everything’s drab, and I read, that they tried to make as much use of natural lighting as possible and tried not to use, much artificial light when when possible. And you can tell because it’s it’s it’s not one of those movies that’s so dark that you can’t see what’s going on, but it’s always in shades of darkness or seems like it. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s a very bleak depressing movie from the get go, and the pacing helps with that. And as you said, the color helps with that. I don’t know. I’m always convinced that camping is one of those things that everybody says they love Uh-huh. But nobody really actually enjoys or at least you do that night when you’re around the campfire telling stories, and then when you actually have to sleep and wake up in the morning, you just feel gross, you know. You’re you smell like smoke, and you you’re not comfortable because you’re sleeping in the sleeping bag on the ground, and it’s been Todd. Right.   And you can’t wash up, and it’s just nasty. And that feeling is the feeling I got watching this movie, 

Craig:  you know, 

Todd:  losing people’s existence. 

Craig:  Right. It doesn’t make you wish that you lived in colonial history. I mean, you know, they they have to completely provide for themselves. You know? If they can’t, then they’re just screwed. And it seems like, they’re trying to farm corn. Eventually, we find out that’s not going very well. But, really, we for a movie that really is pretty slow paced, we jump into the main conflict right away. 

Todd:  We do. 

Craig:  They arrive where they’re gonna set it up. They all kneel and pray kind of, and you see the woods looming in the background in this clearing. And then we jump a little bit forward in time to where they’ve built a a house, and they’ve kinda got some stuff, you know, their goat pen set up and whatnot. And the mom, Catherine, hands the baby Samuel to Thomason, the oldest daughter, for her to watch the baby while the parents are working. And Thomason takes the baby just kind of over to the side of the house, and she lays him down on the ground, and she’s playing peekaboo with him. And it’s a cute little fat baby, and he’s laughing and stuff. And I actually I had seen the trailer. So this was the 1 scene that I had seen.   She’s playing peekaboo with the baby, and, of course, you know, she covers her eyes and she, takes her hands away, and the baby’s there. Boo. Where’s Boo. The last time she does it, we see the look on her face, and then it shoots back down to where the baby was, but the baby’s gone. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  There’s no natural explanation for what could have happened. I mean, she’s she only had her hands on over her eyes for a couple of seconds, and they’re in a clearing. It’s not like there could have been somebody really nearby concealed that could have gotten the baby. So it’s gotta be something weird. Yeah. And then I was thinking, okay. So this is gonna be the mystery. Mhmm.   But it wasn’t. I mean, it cuts right away. You see this shrouded figure running through the forest, and you hear the baby Craig. And then, I mean, we get a full out witch scene. 

Todd:  You do. And that’s what really struck me about this film is it is absolutely on its face what it is. Mhmm. It wears its intentions on its sleeve. It plays it straight the whole way through. I was always waiting as you kind of alluded to there a 2nd ago for this mystery or this m night Shyamalan twist Right. Kind of thing happening. And, you know, spoiler alert, this is a movie about which a witch and what it does to this family. 

Craig:  Right. I mean, the direction that they go is that this is actually set, I think, about 30, 50 years something before the Salem witch trials, but around the time that the first kind of witch scare happened, in New England. And, you know, the approach the movie takes is it’s real. It’s not just paranoia. It’s not just kids pretending. You know? There really are witches. I mean, obviously, the family has to process through their minds. You know? They don’t immediately jump to witchcraft even though that is something that they clearly believe in and it’s a possibility.   Mhmm. But they try to explain it away practically first. You know? Their their thought is it had to have been a wolf, you know, or or some animal. We know that that doesn’t make any sense, but that would be you know, my first thought wouldn’t be, oh, well, witches, obviously. Yeah. But as it turns out, it is witches, or a witch at least 

Todd:  that we see. It’s odd because it does leave the movie in a good way, leaves a little bit unclear as to okay. Well, maybe it’s a witch. Is it is there supernatural stuff going on, though? Is some of this in their mind? Is some of it dreamy? It’s very clear that the woman has taken the baby because as you said, we see a scene. The very next thing is this baby laying down and the woman’s hand kind of in the shadows caresses it and then takes a knife. Mhmm. And I thought maybe she’s gonna castrate it, but it seems like actually killed the baby because she’s smearing the blood and and guts kind of over her. Again, we don’t get a good look at her, but we see her older saggy, 

Craig:  kind of She’s nude. I mean, it’s it’s kind of your I don’t know. You know, there’s lots of different versions of witches, but this is when I think of traditional coven witches. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Like, the Macbeth witches, you 

Todd:  know. Right. Right. 

Craig:  Todd, you know, haggie. Right. Naked. 

Todd:  Like, witching and bitching, you know, that we saw in the Right. Big old one at the end is sort of the caricature of that. 

Craig:  An old lady, old hat, and she’s she’s nude, and babies in peril is a lot like dogs in peril. Like, you know, you’re like, no. Not the baby. And and they don’t show anything terribly graphic, but it’s it’s clear. I mean, she puts the knife towards the child, and then you see her. And this is all shot so that you’re not getting a direct look. You’re kinda seeing her from behind or from the side in profile. The light focus.   The light is low, and it’s just lit by kind of flickering firelight. But you do see that where the baby was laying is now there’s blood and gore there, and she’s, like, bathing herself in in the blood. So Yeah. It appears that she sacrificed the baby. And they you know, the family looks for a few days, but then they just have to give up. You know? There’s they don’t know what to do. 

Todd:  Yeah. And the mother is just beside herself. She, Catherine. Right? 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  She has not slept as the father says. What’s his name again? 

Craig:  William. 

Todd:  As William says, she hasn’t slept in days ever since it happened. 

Craig:  And she’s been constantly praying to herself. I mean, these people are supremely religious. Yes. I mean, they are they are true Puritans. 

Todd:  You know? 

Craig:  You know? They’re constantly praying. They’re constant the daughter, at one point in the beginning says, I know that I deserve eternal hellfire. I’ve broken every commandment in thought, but please have mercy on me. It’s that very puritanical self loathing kind of thing. 

Todd:  Which is a very arresting scene because this 11, 12 year old girl, you’re thinking what in the world has she done? 

Craig:  Could she 

Todd:  possibly have done to flagellate herself Right. In this vicious sort of way verbally? Right. And she’s cute, and she’s nice, and she’s generally pretty sweet, and she’s very responsible. Mhmm. Like, they all have to be responsible Mhmm. In order to make this existence go. And that was another thing that really struck me about this movie was it takes its time showing you just how miserable a lifestyle this is. When you are out on your own homesteading at this time, in this period, all you have really is the luck of the draw Mhmm.   And faith to turn on. And there these people’s faith is failing them. Mhmm. A 100% all the time, but they cling to it even more fervently because it’s all that they have. Right. The corn is going bad, and it’s rough and dirty and miserable, and they have to carry the water from the creek. It’s just exhausting watching it. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, I mean, obviously, this is fiction. They there’s a on screen text at the end that says that this was based on, actual historical court documents, and some of the, lines from the movie are actually recorded in in court documents and whatnot, which I feel like is to, you know, be like, oh, it’s based on a true story. But it it’s really not all that surprising. I mean Yeah. Though it is fiction, I feel like it’s it’s pretty true to what colonial Puritan life was like. I mean, it was hard, and they did strongly believe in the forces of evil. They literally believed that the forest was a wicked place where the black man, the the devil, prowled around and had a book that, you know, would he would force you to sign your name, and then he would have your soul.   They believed in, in witchcraft. And and, of course, you know, I think that that was the reasoning for that was to keep order in their society. Mhmm. But, again, like you said, very unpleasant. I mean, just even, you know, feeling the mother, when the baby dies, she’s inconsolable, and she feels that maybe they’re being punished for whatever crime they were accused of back in the village. 

Todd:  Which lays on the guilt. Right. Especially the guilt on Thomasin. Of course, she feels guilty, and you could see it in her face. 

Craig:  Well and it seems like as as rebellious as a young Puritan could be, I feel like like Thomason just maybe has a little bit of an she has like a she has like a little independent streak, and so it seems like maybe she’s kind of been a nuisance for her parents in the past, especially the mom. There seems to be some tension between Thomason and the mom. Then, I mean, Thomason was the one who had the baby when it went missing. So I think the mom’s got a little bit of blame going on there too, and it seeps out a little bit. So there’s tension between them. There’s tension abounding because There is. They are on the verge. I mean, they’re doing okay in the moment, but the winter is approaching.   They don’t have enough store Todd. And so, though they have tried to avoid the forest because of their beliefs about the forest, the dad secretly takes Caleb out into the forest, to set traps. 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  And they keep that, and and he asks the son, Caleb, to keep that a secret from the mother. So then there’s secrecy and Mhmm. All kinds of stuff going on. 

Todd:  One thing piling on top of it. And he does take him out there, and they’ve set these traps. In the meantime, later on, we get a very pivotal scene with Thomason and Caleb sitting by the edge of the brook. And, again, that’s what this movie really does. I I can’t say it’s subtlety, but it’s a quiet sort of visual language 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Where Thomason is washing clothes Mhmm. And I’m this may even be the 2nd time in this film, yeah, when Caleb is looking at her, and he’s looking at her cleavage. She’s got almost no cleavage, but he’s 

Craig:  she’s a 

Todd:  12 year old girl. Right. But she’s blossoming, and he’s taking some interest. And so you have this again, it’s it’s more of the sadness of this isolation 

Craig:  because this 

Todd:  boy’s gotta look at his sister when he’s getting these feelings that he’s at this age. And you know she’s gotta be if she’s not already, you know, at that age. 

Craig:  Well, and it’s the isolation, but it’s also when you live that life that where you repress every, you know, natural desire. It’s bound. I mean, especially in adolescence, it’s bound to spill out somewhere. And as yucky as it sounds, I mean, if your sister is the only young female around Yeah. It she’s gonna maybe draw your eye. 

Todd:  But the movie doesn’t really pound you over the with this. No. It’s it’s very subtle. Yeah. It’s, again, more of that tension. Now you have the tension of these kids growing up, and they’re at these pivotal points in their lives when their emotions and and you’re also fighting hormones and things like that. And the 2 little kids, what were their names again? 

Craig:  The boy is Jonas and the girl is Mercy. Mhmm. 

Todd:  Jonas and Mercy are almost, like, way too cute, and they run around in their bonnets, and and they are get to be kids. They just play around, and they run around. They run around with the the ram. 

Craig:  The the goat. Goat. Black Phillip. They I I guess it’s you know, these goats are obviously for their agricultural purposes. They, you know, they they harvest their milk and whatnot, but it seems like Black Philip is kind of the kid’s pet goat. Yeah. And they play around with him and sing songs and, like, talk to him and stuff. 

Todd:  Get back. 

Craig:  You should stop that. See it. And it is it is cute. But, at that scene by the river or creek or whatever it is where she’s washing clothes, Caleb is upset just because of everything that’s going on. You know? Like you said, it’s just one thing after another. Mhmm. And she comforts him, and it’s sweet. It’s not yucky.   I mean, it’s weird at all. No. It’s it’s just sweet brother, sister. But then they hear something like a twig snap or something, and they get up. And I’m thinking maybe the witch is hanging around or something, but it it turns out it’s Mercy. But, she’s got, like, a stick that she’s, like, pretending to use as a broom. And she’s saying, I’m the witch of the woods, and I’m gonna get you. And she’s, I guess, teasing or kind of picking on Thomason.   So then Thomason turns it around on her and says, no. I’m the witch of the woods, and I, took Samuel. And at night, my spirit comes out of my body and dances naked in the woods with the devil. And 

Todd:  And I signed his book. And 

Craig:  Right. And I’m I’m gonna eat you or something along those lines. I mean, she’s lying, but she’s a Terrifying little girl. She’s terrifying the little girl, and I was thinking this is dangerous. And it would have been very dangerous in their society to even pretend that, 

Todd:  you know, because with the young child. 

Craig:  Yeah. And they were the Puritan community in general was so paranoid. It did not take very much for them to you know, for suspicion to rear its ugly head. So I knew. I was like, oh, you really don’t wanna be doing that. 

Todd:  And she didn’t. Right. It really was a bad call. I mean, we’ve all seen the crucible rings. So we know how that how that that thing goes. 

Craig:  Well, the mom and the dad are talking about they’re in bed. It’s like a 1 room house, but the mom and the dad kind of have curtains around their their bed when 

Todd:  they sleep. They’re down below, and the kids sleep in the loft like up above. 

Craig:  Right. And, they’re talking about the immediate future and what they’re gonna do, and the mom calls and to see if the kids are awake. And because they don’t respond, she assumes that they’re asleep, but they’re not. They’re sitting up listening. And she says she’s getting I think she’s getting uncomfortable because Thomason is developing. She is becoming a woman. And not only do they need money, but it was also traditional for when young women became young women for them to go out and to work as a servant in another household, until they would be married, and then they would go to their husband’s household. 

Todd:  Mhmm. 

Craig:  And so, the kids hear that that’s the plan, that the parents are going to the dad’s gonna take her into town and, find a family for her to live it with and and work for. And she doesn’t wanna go, and then I so I I guess maybe Caleb doesn’t want her to go either. 

Todd:  It seems like it’s his he’s trying to protect her, trying to get some again, trying to improve this family situation all on his own so that she doesn’t have to leave. Mhmm. So he decides to go off and tries to go off in the middle of the night essentially with the horse. And Thomason comes out and sees what he’s doing and says, you can’t go that. You can’t go into the woods. And he says, no. I I need to do this for us. Eventually, she convinces him to take her with him.   Mhmm. So they go into the woods, and the woods are pretty creepy. Yeah. Every time the woods are shown in this movie, it’s it really is the unknown. It’s the scary. It’s the lack of it’s the wild, essentially. Absolutely. But it’s also the dead and the cold.   Yeah. They’re not eve it doesn’t seem to be teeming with wildlife. At least 

Craig:  it’s 

Todd:  not helping these folks out any, and we’re not seeing it. Except we do every now and then see this rabbit. 

Craig:  Yeah. This weird rabbit. Like, the 1st time that, the dad and Caleb went out, they saw this rabbit, and the dad tried to shoot it, but it’s his gun backfired in his face. And then I feel like Thomason I don’t remember if this is, you know, in the correct timeline, but at some point, Thomasin sees the rabbit in the goat’s pen. 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  And when they go out, when Thomasin and Caleb are out this time, he finds something in one of the traps that they had set, so they’re happy about that. But then the dog, as it did the 1st time when he was out with his dad, the the dog starts barking, and they see that he’s barking at this rabbit. And so the dog takes off after the rabbit. Caleb takes off after the dog. And the horse even rears back at the rabbit. Right. Right. And, Thomason is on the horse, and she’s thrown from the horse and is knocked unconscious on the ground. 

Todd:  And I guess the horse takes off. Is that Yeah. That’s basically what happened. Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  And so I guess the night passes. I mean, I I think that Caleb kinda gets lost in the woods by himself looking for the dog. Thomason is knocked out. So the when the parents wake up in the morning, they they see that they’re gone, and the horse is gone, and the gun is gone, and the dog is gone. So they kind of go out into, you know, as far into the woods as they dare kind of calling and whatnot. Meanwhile, Thomas hears the dog, Fowler, the dog, whimpering, and he comes upon him, and the dog has been he it’s still alive, unfortunately, but it’s he’s it looked like it 

Todd:  had been gutted. 

Craig:  Yeah. And so Thomas continues looking around until he comes upon this little cottage. 

Todd:  This is Caleb, by the way. 

Craig:  Oh, excuse me. Yeah. Caleb. Until he comes, across this cottage in the woods, you know, it looks like 

Todd:  The classic cottage in the woods. Right. Yeah. 

Craig:  I mean, it’s kind of earthen and kinda seems like it’s maybe kinda built into a hill or something, and there’s smoke coming out of the the chimney. And, of course, you’re thinking, get away from there. What? 

Todd:  It might as well be made of candy. 

Craig:  Exactly. Exactly. And he approaches the door, and, the door opens and out steps this beautiful woman in a low cut revealing thing that shows her bosom. And I liked this scene because it felt like Caleb was being seduced, you know, just both visually, but also that there was some sort of other worldliness about him. 

Todd:  Some kind of supernatural aspect. 

Craig:  Right. And I the reason that I liked it was because the the kid who played, Caleb, on his face I mean, you could tell he was being drawn towards this woman, but on his face, you could almost tell that he knew that it was bad and that he was in trouble, that this wasn’t a good thing. Yeah. And so she he approaches her, and she leans in and kisses him on the mouth. And when she kisses him on the mouth, then her arm reaches around and grabs the back of his head very forcefully, and the arm is the arm of an old hag. 

Todd:  Yeah. That was a really effective scare, I thought. It was creepy. It was extremely creepy. And, again, in the movie that doesn’t have much for jump scares, I would I would consider that one. Although, it’s not your traditional jump scare. 

Craig:  Right. It’s a little more subtle. 

Todd:  Yeah. The music comes to a hit and yeah. I, I also thought that that was an effective scene, and it really is emblematic of a lot of this film in that the camera lingers on people and their faces for almost too long sometimes Mhmm. To that point where it starts to feel uncomfortable. 

Craig:  Well and it feels unnatural. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And I I think that that is effective. 

Todd:  And it gets you wondering in your head, what are they thinking? Mhmm. I especially got this feeling a lot when the camera would linger on Thomason. Even at that moment where you talked about toward the beginning of the movie where she’s playing peekaboo with the baby and her She does that last peekaboo, and it’s from the baby’s perspective. We see her face, and there’s that look of shock. There’s that look of surprise, but it lingers for quite a while. Mhmm. And it gets you really analyzing her emotional state Yeah. More than you normally would.   You know, if I were doing if I were cutting that scene, I absolutely would’ve cut away. It would’ve been a quick Yeah. Look of shock. It would’ve been a quick thing, but I think this is more effective in that way. It really pulls us into the minds of the characters. It forces us to to ask what they’re thinking, and it forces us to second guess sometimes Yeah. The things that they’re saying because there are so many secrets and because we’re still wondering if there isn’t something more here 

Craig:  Exactly. 

Todd:  That meets the eye. That was a great that was a great scene. We know that he’s pretty much done for. And at the meantime, Todd Thomason has found her way out of the woods back to the family. Mhmm. 

Craig:  Well, they they all go in the house. And at this point, you know, again, like, it’s not set outright, but just through the tension between characters, you can tell that they’ve not failed to notice that Thomason has been present when both of these people have disappeared. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And so even though it’s it’s not in your face, you know that they’re starting to question and and that maybe she is gonna kind of be at the center of some of those questions. The dad, William, wants to go out and look for him, in the night, and and the mom says that she doesn’t want him to go out. It’s, she wants him to go into town for help, but he doesn’t have a horse. He doesn’t have a gun. He doesn’t have a dog. It’s raining. 

Todd:  Yeah. They took all that. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, I think that I don’t know. If she convinces him not to go, I don’t remember how that played out. 

Todd:  Oh, that’s right. But you did no. She doesn’t end up going, but what happens is that, I think it’s Thomason who’s outside wandering around, 

Craig:  or she goes out to feed the To, yeah, to bed down the goats. They have to bed down 

Todd:  the goats every day. And there’s Caleb standing there naked, by the post in the rain, and he collapses. 

Craig:  And 

Todd:  she takes him in. They take him up to the attic, and he’s babbling. He’s 

Craig:  At first, he’s kinda catatonic, but then the next morning, he they’re all outside working. I mean, that that’s the other thing too. Like, life can’t stop. That’s right. They have to keep working. So they’re all outside working, and, they hear a a scream from inside. And it’s Caleb, and he has kind of a dick. 

Todd:  William. 

Craig:  William. Hold it. Sheldon, away from this. 

Todd:  Thomas, hang out. 

Craig:  Look like his jaws. I I had noticed this when he was outside, but he’s got, what looked like scratches, all over his body. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. And speaking of that, again, another bit that is real subtle, but just shows you how bleak and sad things are. Just in case you need a reminder is when they’re first looming over him as he is catatonic and they’re patting him down and they’re doing all that they can, they cut a little bit of his, around his eye and start to bleed him out. Yeah. You know? It’s it’s old medicine. I know. That’s old. 

Craig:  See, I don’t know anything about that. That’s what I thought. I was like, so I guess you bleed a fever. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. That’s weird. Did the there’s the something bad in the blood, and so you bleed the blood out. And you’re thinking, man, this kid has no chance. He has no chance 

Craig:  out in the woods. He’s got 

Todd:  no chance with his family at home. 

Craig:  So he screams and they go in and, like, I don’t know. I mean, first of all, they all have really, really thick New England accents. Yes. Really thick. And there were times when I really struggled to understand what they were saying, and there were sometimes when I didn’t understand what they were saying. 

Todd:  And it wasn’t just the accent, but it was also the dialect. Right. The phrases that they’re using and everything. When you you’re already having a hard time making out what they’re saying and then you the words and sentences are so unnatural for present day compounded on the fact that everything spoken at really low tones and they’re almost whispering to each other half the time or, you know, it’s kinda down deep in their throat when they’re talking because it’s so quiet. My gosh, man. I’d say about half the dialogue in this movie went, like, right over my head. 

Craig:  I’m glad I wasn’t the only one. And, like, it sounded really authentic, but if you can’t understand what they’re saying, like, I don’t know. Anyway 

Todd:  Oh, I will I almost wondered though if you could watch this film without, with the sound turned off and still completely understand it. 

Craig:  I think you could. Mhmm. And for the most part, I mean, you might not get some of the nuances, but I think that just the the energy of what’s going on in each of the scenes kinda speaks for itself. Yeah. He kinda has this fit, and then he his his jaw locks. And he starts bleeding from the mouth. And they they try to, like, pry his his mouth open so that they can put, like, a stick or a cork in there. They eventually do pry his mouth open or or he goes limp or something, and he coughs up what looked like a crab apple 

Todd:  or something. Craig apple. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  Now was that something he vomited, or was that something that was always in his mouth they didn’t know? It couldn’t fit in his mouth? 

Craig:  No. I don’t think so. He retched. I mean, I don’t know. I 

Todd:  mean Yeah. 

Craig:  But, I 

Todd:  wondered if that was supposed to be something somewhat supernatural or if that was just, 

Craig:  Well, it’s it had an effect. The the mom said, he’s witched. Like, I don’t know if that’s some sort of specific lore. Right? I don’t know. It could be. But at that point, she knows he’s witched. And now the little kids say it’s her and point at Thomason and tell the parents what Thomason said, and now she’s in trouble. 

Todd:  Now she’s in trouble, and they even go into this. Again, it’s it’s so much like the crucible. You know? They go into these these fits themselves. The the kids start almost speaking in tongues and twitching and 

Craig:  And they can’t pray they can’t pray like their prayer has been stopped or something like that. 

Todd:  And and you’re thinking, oh, is this a psychosomatic kind of deal or is this actual supernatural stuff going on? 

Craig:  And I still don’t know. I don’t either. I I couldn’t figure that out because, you know, with the I I teach literature, and so I have I’ve taught the crucible, and so I’ve looked into the witchcraft trials and whatnot. 

Todd:  That’s why you know so much. I’m like, oh, okay. This guy this guy knows way too much about puritanical signs. 

Craig:  So during the witchcraft trials, the a lot of the behavior remains unexplained, but it’s, you know, a common theory that these girls were just pretending. And once one of them started pretending, then the others would just follow suit. So it would seem like they all had similar symptoms Mhmm. Which would then be convincing because it was happening to lots of people, not just 1. But here, I didn’t know I thought there must be something happening because how would they know to do that? 

Todd:  Yeah. That’s true. They’re they’re isolated here and they of course, they’re of an age. They probably heard enough stories. 

Craig:  I suppose. 

Todd:  But, yeah, I think 

Craig:  the 

Todd:  perhaps the film is deliberately vague on that point. 

Craig:  Yeah. And like you said, they almost kinda I mean, they kinda fall to the ground and are twitching a little bit. You know, they they are they clearly seem to be affected. And the parents that the mother turns on Thomasin pretty pretty immediately. 

Todd:  She does. And the father, but he rides that fence. 

Craig:  Right. He he approaches her and and says, you know, tell me the truth, confess. You know? I think he says something like people can be unwitched or something like that, but you have to tell the truth. 

Todd:  Takes her outside. 

Craig:  Well, she runs away Craig, and, he follows her. And it seems that he wants to comfort her. And I think that he does. Mhmm. But at the same time, he still is suspicious, and I I think genuinely believes that she’s a witch. And he starts getting a little bit aggressive with her and keeps saying tell the truth, tell the truth, tell the truth. And she says, oh, you wanna hear the truth? Well, the truth is it’s your fault we’re out here. It’s your fault we don’t have any food.   It’s your fault you can’t do anything right except cut wood. 

Todd:  Yeah. You can’t hunt. You can’t grow. All you can do all you can do is cut wood. 

Craig:  Which, again, you know, she’s a teenager. She is being falsely accused, but maybe not the wisest time to to air this laundry. 

Todd:  It’s a good point. So are high. Yeah. 

Craig:  And I think that just further convinces him that she’s wicked, but she says, it’s not me. It’s the twins. The twins talk to that goat, and they say that goat tells them what to do. And the kids have said that several times that they talked to the goat, and Black Phillips told us this, and Black Phillips told us we can do whatever we want, and Black Phillips said this and this. 

Todd:  That was a real clever thing for her to do. Mhmm. Obviously, out of desperation, but, boy, did she turn the tables real quick. 

Craig:  Right. And so he takes her at her word, and goes inside and starts yelling at the kids who are still catatonic or whatever, telling them to confess, to wake up, to stop pretending. He says, I won’t be made a fool of by children’s games. And, eventually, I think he says, I’ll sacrifice these children like Abrahams. Abraham’s one that sacrifices some 

Todd:  of them. Like Abraham did. Yeah. 

Craig:  And, he picks up the little boy by, like, his 

Todd:  shirt. Of his neck. Yeah. He is terrified. 

Craig:  And and the little boy screams. So, again, I didn’t know if they were pretending. Like, if they if they were just so scared that they wanted to just kinda pretend like they didn’t know what was going on because he wakes up then, And at that point, then the dad is suspicious of all of them. 

Todd:  Yes. 

Craig:  The mother wants Thomason out of the house. The so the dad takes all of the kids. 

Todd:  All 3 of them. Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  Because Caleb died. He died. We forgot to say that. Yep. It’s it’s and it was a weird thing too. 

Todd:  Odd situation. He has a very dramatic death that would have seemed laughable in another film. Mhmm. It’s a very Shakespearean sort of death where he wakes up, and he starts praying to God and saying, oh, Lord, take me. I’m ready to join you up above in this very flowery language, very adult flowery language. 

Craig:  Well, it’s like, I feel your embrace. I feel your kisses. Mhmm. It seems like what’s happening is he is meeting his maker. Yeah. 

Todd:  And It’s it’s really odd, but it works in this movie because everybody’s talking like this. 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  You know? And so you can see it, and he dies. So then the dad locks the kids up, the rest of the kids up in the pen with the goat. Uh-huh. He’s got them all boarded up in there. And, that’s when the girl and the other kids start chatting. And she’s like, did you real do do you really talk to him? And they don’t really answer, do they? 

Craig:  They she asks them, are you witches? And they don’t really answer. 

Todd:  No. 

Craig:  The girl, Mercy says, are you? And she says, no. I’m not. And she has said throughout, I love Caleb. I would never do any is that his name? Yep. Yeah. I love Caleb. I would never do anything to hurt him, and I would never do anything to hurt you. And I didn’t get the sense that, really, they were, at least consciously, involved with anything Mhmm.   Supernatural. I got more that they were just confused and didn’t really know what was happening. 

Todd:  Yeah. That’s what I felt too. 

Craig:  But they are in there. The mom and the dad are asleep in their room, which I thought was kinda funny. Like, they just go to bed. The kids are locked out in the in the goat pen. 

Todd:  We’ll deal with this in the morning. Right. We got enough chores to do. 

Craig:  We see the mother very quietly get out of bed, and there had been some business earlier on about how the dad had had to sell her father’s silver goblet, and she was really upset about that. And you notice the kind of in the background of this scene, the goblet is there. And then she turns around, and Caleb is there sitting and holding Samuel, the baby. And she goes over and she is quiet, but she says, I’m so happy to see you. Let me wake your father. He’ll be he’ll be so happy to see you, and they say, no. Let Caleb says no. Let him sleep.   And then I think we cut back to the kids in the pen. Yeah. 

Todd:  Right? They’re hearing stuff happen outside. It sounds like something’s landed on the top of the pen and then jumps down onto the ground. 

Craig:  Right. And then we cut back to the mom who is now holding the baby, and Caleb is saying something like, I’m glad you’re glad to see me. I’ve brought you a book. Will you look at it with me? 

Todd:  That’s right. You know what? I didn’t I didn’t I couldn’t interpret what he was saying. I’m glad you did for me. 

Craig:  He’s I brought you a book. Will you look at the book with me? And she says, yes. But wait. The baby’s hungry. And so she goes to breastfeed the baby. We cut back out to the pen. The little kids are up and are kind of inching towards, I don’t know, towards something. And I think that they say papa or something like that.   And then we see what they are seeing, and it is the naked hag witch. I mean, we just see her backside, and it looked like she was maybe suckling the goat or eating the goat. Naked. So she you know, they see her, and they’re just kind of standing there watching in awe. Her back is turned, and then all of a sudden, it closes up to her head, and she turns and, like, laughs. Right? This really wicked witchy laugh. And then it cuts back to the mother, and it’s like a full screenshot of her sitting in a rocking chair with a raven right in front of her eating at her breast, like like pecking at her breast. 

Todd:  Yeah. So she felt like she you know, we had left her. She was breastfeeding Samuel, but we see what’s really happening is this raven is pecking at it. And that’s the point at which you realize, alright, either we’re seeing this crazy dream sequence and all kinds of strange things are happening, or this is supernatural. Yeah. And that was the point where I I bought into the supernatural 

Craig:  thing pretty whole hog. Yeah. I I had pretty much bought into it before that just because I didn’t really see any alternative. 

Todd:  You 

Craig:  know? Like, like you said, in the beginning, I was thinking, well, maybe it’s gonna be misunderstanding or or or there’s some practical explanation, but, no. I mean, it’s it’s which is it’s witchcraft. Absolutely is. And then it so cuts to the next morning. 

Todd:  Yep. The next morning, and father gets up and he steps over, Catherine, and, he doesn’t notice her bloody. So we know that that’s true. Mhmm. That’s the point where we know, okay. That actually did happen because over her left breast is bloody. Right. And he walks outside, and the pen is burst open 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And all the animals The goats are slain. Slain over there. And who’s who’s the only one around? But, again, Thomason. Mhmm. And the boy even the kids are not there. They’re gone. And, so that’s when they have it out. 

Craig:  Well, the dad says something like he yells it or something accusatory or where are they or something like that. And then we don’t see what happens, but he gets all of a sudden, like, just hit really hard. And you’re not clear what has happened immediately, but then it pulls back a little bit, and you see that he has been gored through his gut and torso by Black Philip. And and not just a little bit, like blood is coming out of the womb. Yeah. 

Todd:  That was super surprising. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Black Philip’s in on it too after all. You know? Mhmm. And the dad almost seems to give up. He picks up an ax, and he looks to the heavens, and you see blood drip out of his mouth. And he looks back at the ax, and he tosses it down. And what does he ask a prayer? Maybe 

Craig:  corruption, I am thy father. I think he was talking about her. I think that he still thought 

Todd:  She’s a witch. 

Craig:  That and that she had done all of this. Mhmm. So then 

Todd:  Mother comes out. Mhmm. Mother comes springing out and sees everything that’s happened, which is interesting. I guess Blackfield went off to chew on some grass. Right. At that point, mother comes out and starts attacking Thomason, and they have a tussle on the ground. And, Thomason, in the midst of the tussle grabs a, 

Craig:  I guess, it’s a knife or knife 

Todd:  of some sort. And, you know, and self defense kinda wax mom with it, and mom gets his super cut on the face and starts to bleed on her. And, of course, mother especially now lays into her and starts choking her. And this was a heartbreaking scene because you can tell that Thomason, is being choked and that she does not have to let this go on. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  And she’s sitting there and crying and crying, and you can tell that she is consciously making this decision to go ahead and take out mom, which she does with a couple more whacks. 

Craig:  She really doesn’t have any choice. No. I mean, it’s it’s it’s that or Or die. Right. 

Todd:  Yeah. And so she is the last surviving person in this family. And, man, that scene was heartbreaking. 

Craig:  Now this is getting close to the end of the movie, and I had no idea where it was gonna go from here. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It was getting really close to the end, and I I just couldn’t imagine what was going to happen next. Thomason goes in the house. She takes off her dress. She’s got a shift, like an under like a nightgown underneath. And she sits down at the table, and she lays down her head and sleeps until night.   And then at night, she takes a candle, and she goes out into the goat shed. Well, black Philip is, like, standing outside of the goat shed. Yeah. And she stands and kinds of they kind of look at each other for a little bit. This is kind of a wide shot, and then black black Philip turns and goes inside, and she and she follows him in. 

Todd:  And I thought maybe this okay. Maybe this is a dream sequence of some kind. You know? 

Craig:  I had no idea what was gonna happen. But you you 

Todd:  you This is crazy. This was absolutely crazy. From here on, we don’t see Black Philip. We just see her. It’s like from Black Philip’s point of view, her talking to him. And she just sits there in the candlelight in the shed and stares at him for a while and then asks him, tell me what what is it she says? 

Craig:  She says, I conjure you to speak to me like you spoke to the twins or something like that. 

Todd:  And there’s just silence for a while. She repeats it, and there’s silence for a while again, and then you hear a voice. 

Craig:  Uh-huh. This very low, whispery male voice. And, again, you I oh, I didn’t know what to think because I I had thought if the goat starts talking, that’s gonna be too much. It’s gonna get it’s gonna get into, like, evil dead, drag me to hell territory. It’s gonna be goofy. But because you can’t see him, there there’s no weird effect, and you don’t really know what she’s seeing. So it’s not like some animatronic goat head talking. 

Todd:  It’s brilliant. It’s a brilliant way to frame this if you’re gonna do it. And as the e the goat continues to talk, again, out of focus behind her, suddenly you see some boots go by and you realize there is a man of some kind in there with her Mhmm. Who’s walked back around from where the goat is, puts his hand on her shoulder, starts talking about this book that he 

Craig:  wants her to sign. He asks he asks her first, well but that’s the very first thing that he says. What do you want? Yes. 

Todd:  And Gosh. 

Craig:  She says, what can you give me? Yeah. And he says, do you want a pretty dress? Do you want to travel the world? Do you want wealth? And she says, yes. 

Todd:  At this point, of course, she’s got nothing else. 

Craig:  It’s a seduction, and it’s played very it’s uncomfortable that it’s played seductively. You know, his voice is very soft and and masculine and seductive. And like you said, he slowly walks around behind her, and once he and he’s completely in shadow, very, very dark. 

Todd:  Oh, you don’t see a face. No. Because we’re down on the ground, and you’re seeing maybe knees up. Right. 

Craig:  And when he does put his hand on her shoulder, eventually, it’s a very dark, like, unnaturally dark Yeah. 

Todd:  Hand. I thought maybe it was gloved or something. It’s really hard to tell. 

Craig:  Right. But he says, take off your shift, her her dress, and it seems like there’s a little bit of hesitation, but not very much. And, she takes it off, and he says, do you see a book before you? And we it the camera pans down, and there’s the book. And she says, I can’t write my name. And he says, I’ll guide your hand. Yeah. 

Todd:  It’s it’s right out of these puritanical nightmares. 

Craig:  Yes. 

Todd:  But really so well done. It’s funny that she even gets to that point where she doesn’t say, okay. Yes. Oh, Lucifer, oh, Todd, I will sign it. You know? She she’s hesitant, but he says, I’ll guide your hand. Right. Man, it’s such a good bit. And then she walks out of there out, and we get these long, slow shots of her walking naked into the woods.   Mhmm. 

Craig:  Followed by Black Philip right 

Todd:  behind her. Nude. Uh-huh. Through the woods and up to a full on witch, witch, thing going on Yeah. 

Craig:  You start you start it starts out quietly, but you hear this, chanting. I mean, it’s obvious, you know, witchy chanting, and it gets progressively louder until you realize that it has to be multiple witches. I mean, up to this point, we’ve seen the old hag. 

Todd:  We think there’s 1. 

Craig:  And we and we’ve seen the Beautiful. The beautiful woman, but I’d assumed they were 1 in the same, and she was just transforming. But now we see this whole coven. And, again, I mean, it’s straight out of the crucible or, anything else. Like, you know, these these women completely nude, dancing, kind of erratically around, chanting, you know, really suggestive, and she slowly approaches, and she’s watching. And as she watches, the witches begin to levitate up off the ground around this fire. And it’s such a I don’t know if beautiful is the right word, but it’s such a visually Yeah. Interesting shot.   And they just slowly and gracefully rise to different levels. And you see one of them rising to the very it’s shot from low, and she’s rising all the way to the top of this tree. And then it comes back to to Thomason, and we see her kind of from the shoulders up. And based on the perspective of the background, we see that she starts to rise too. And as she starts to rise, she smiles cut to black. Yeah. 

Todd:  Boy, that puts you in an interesting spot too because you’re thinking, well, this girl pretty much had no choice. Right. You’re also wondering, you know, in a in a strange sort of way, is she a little better off? 

Craig:  I mean, that’s 

Todd:  the thing. 

Craig:  It’s it’s at the she really does have no choice but to just surrender to it. I mean, it’s it’s what else is there left for her to do? I mean, even if she were to try to go back to the village, there’s gonna, where’s the rest of your family? Oh, they’re all murdered? Right. 

Todd:  What what you’re the only survivor, So 

Craig:  she seems to not have any choice. And at the end, it’s like, maybe because she has no choice, she chooses to embrace it. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And it’s weird. I did not expect it to go there. I expected some that she would get away. Maybe there would be a confrontation with the witch. Maybe somehow she would trick or defeat the witch somehow. That’s what I was expecting, but, no, it’s you know, she’s she surrenders to it. 

Todd:  I even thought it would be sort of a bleak depression, and she would almost do a suicide or or just give up on life and slowly rot away. And that maybe what we were seeing for a little while, I thought, well, maybe this is a dream maybe this is her own mind coming to terms with what’s happened. And just like the kids, you know, that there was a psychosis essentially. Mhmm. She’s so far beaten down, mentally that she’s conjuring up what she needs to, for her mind to come at ease. But I don’t think the movie plays it that way. I think it’s straight out supernatural. There’s too much other stuff going on. 

Craig:  Right. And, you know, it was such an unexpected ending. 

Todd:  Because of how straightforward it was. 

Craig:  Right. And and the what’s I like I said, after we, you know, got out of the theater, I was reading some trivia on it, and this movie has gotten a full endorsement from the church of Satan. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. 

Craig:  Satanists love this movie. They say that it is an accurate portrayal of the arts and Okay. Uh-uh. They they’re big fans. 

Todd:  That’s weird because I thought the church of Satan actually didn’t believe in the super natural. 

Craig:  I don’t know. And see, maybe it’s not what I read was Satanists. So maybe it’s not the official church of Satan. 

Todd:  I don’t know. 

Craig:  Could be. Alright. But there there are are Satanists out there who are glad that they’re getting a little bit of publicity. 

Todd:  Wasn’t there a little something in the news too about how people were staying away from opening night because the all the satanists were gonna come out? 

Craig:  Or Oh, I maybe I 

Todd:  did talk about that. It’s so funny. It’s almost like a little bit of, of the crucible all over again. 

Craig:  Yeah. But it also it adds it adds a little element of to me, it kinda creeps me out that they would embrace it. It kinda it almost makes me feel a little dirty. Like Right. 

Todd:  They’re not out there, you know, lining up to see sauce 22. Right. You know? Right. But this movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. So, I mean, that’s it. What what did you think? I mean, what’s your evaluation? 

Todd:  You know, I thought it was awfully slow, and I think you have to be in the right mindset. You have to be ready for a slow burn in order to watch this film, or you will be pretty bored and maybe maybe a little impatient. I was awfully tired. 

Craig:  Yeah. I was gonna say, we’re a couple middle aged guys with 9 to 5 jobs, and so we, you know, we’re we’re, you know, kinda early bird special kind of folks. So we went to, Tom. 

Todd:  We’re not, like, 65. Let’s Yeah. Tom. 

Craig:  Todd snuck out of work a little bit early, and he and his wife had been up late the night before working. And there were several times when I was pretty convinced you were asleep. 

Todd:  No. I swear to you. I didn’t sleep at all, but, only because I had something in my contact. I was so uncomfortable the whole time blinking. I couldn’t have possibly fallen asleep. 

Craig: 

Well, yeah, we went to a 4: 30 matinee. We’re the only 2 people in there. We were at the theater. 

Todd:  We had the run of the of the show. It’s just not a good not a good place to go if you if you’re trying to stay away. 

Craig:  Right. But, but I agree with you. It was kinda slow, and but Todd in a good 

Todd:  I mean, it’s a masterful thing. I don’t feel like I wasn’t needed to be cut. 

Craig:  I wasn’t bored, but it felt long. At one point, you asked me what time it was, and I think only something like 25, 30 minutes had gone by. And I thought, oh my god. Surely. No. It felt like an hour. Yeah. It really did. 

Todd:  It it’s it’s an hour and a half movie that feels like 2 and a half. Mhmm. But I think the payoff is worth it. It’s certainly different. Yeah. And, again, it’s so different because maybe we’re I guess, we’re kind of in this era now where the horror movies don’t really play it this straight anymore. Mhmm. You don’t get this straight out fairy tale.   Yep. Here’s a family. Yep. They’re terrorized by a witch. Yep. It’s a witch. There’s so much cleverness. It’s trying a meta going on that this took me to a place that I’ve I’ve rarely spent much time in this puritanical the closest thing I don’t know.   I couldn’t help but run through my mind the whole time I was watching this was, the the Shyamalan film. 

Craig:  The village. 

Todd:  The village. And maybe of late, that is the only film I’ve seen that’s and that one really truly isn’t set in Right. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. In that time period, but when else have I seen a movie, a horror movie set in the puritanical time period like this that we just played it so so straight? And really the dialogue, which, again, as you said at the end of the film, it said that much of the dialogue, if not most of the dialogue, was taken straight from writings of the time. Mhmm. That was very impressive. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  So it seemed very authentic that way too. It’s a kind of movie that you feel a little smarter after 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, it feels like historical fiction. Yeah. It it really does seem to be rooted in history, although I choose to believe. It’s it’s the whole witchcraft thing is fiction. 

Todd:  Oh, you’re not a member of the church of Satan. 

Craig:  That’s what 

Todd:  you’re that’s what you’re revealing to us. It’s a shame. 

Craig:  I I I don’t know. I wouldn’t give it an a plus. Like I said, I didn’t really have any expectations going in, and I thought that it was pretty good, but I didn’t love it. 

Todd:  It wasn’t gripping, was it? Yeah. It was gripping at moments. Mhmm. It was certainly intriguing and interesting. 

Craig:  Yeah. And I think it was well executed. I I mean, I think it was well done. I don’t know. It’s just maybe it was maybe it was a little too slow for me. There were definite highlights. I thought that the young lady who played Thomason did a very 

Todd:  good job. 

Craig:  I thought the acting overall was was quite strong. I I think that my favorites were, Thomasin and Caleb. Yeah. They really seem to, you know, embody their characters. None of them were bad. Like you said, the kids were cute and precocious, and the mom was a little over the top, but it it didn’t read like bad acting. It just read like character choice. The cinematography was different.   Like, you could tell they were going for a particular tone, and I think they got what they were going for. So it’s not that I don’t think that it’s a well done movie, and it’s not that I think that there won’t be people out there who really like it. For example, I was reading that Stephen King said that this movie terrified him. 

Todd:  But Stephen King, almost anything terrifies this guy. Doesn’t he sleep with a night light on? I don’t know. But, yeah, I know what you mean. 

Craig:  I wasn’t terrified, but it was creepy. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And, I think it’s I think it’s worth a viewing. If you’re a horror fan, I I would say if for nothing else than the originality, I I’d I’d give it a watch. 

Todd:  I concur. Well, thank you again for listening to another podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend. Check us out on Facebook. We’re also on Itunes and Stitcher where you can subscribe to us. Leave us a note. Let us know what you thought of the of the show, and give us some suggestions for other films to watch in the future. Until then, I’m Todd.   And I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.