Summer of 84

We continue our month on Shudder with something that just popped up out of the woodwork. Nodding heavily to Stranger Things and all the other similar movies we grew up with in the 80s, it took a sharp turn and ended up waaaaay darker than we expected. And kudos for that.

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Summer of 84 (2018)

Episode 235, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: This week, we go back to the shutter, a service or a shutter exclusive film, I believe. Right. Or at least it was at one time.

Craig: Yeah. I, I don’t think, uh, I don’t think shutter made this movie, but I think that they. Currently have the exclusive rights to it.

Todd: All right. That’s what it is.

That’s how we get to see it anyway. And how you can see it too. If after our conversation today, you were so moved this film. Uh, Craig picked out this week called summer of 84. I never heard of it before. I don’t, I don’t have a subscription to shutter. I just share it. Yeah. And I’m not on there too often.

So, uh, but they’ve got a lot of good stuff on there. I feel like we should be getting money from them for as much as we’ve been promoting their service lately on our show. Uh, but, uh, this is a 2018 Canadian horror mystery film directed by three people Francoists and marred and Knuck whistle and Yuan Carl whistle, who haven’t actually done much, uh, before this have done a movie called turbo kid.

Or something and which

Craig: I’ve heard really good things about it’s on shutter too. And I haven’t watched it yet, but I’ve heard it’s really cool.

Todd: It’s also a horror movie.

Craig: Yeah. Well, I’ve heard it kind of described as like mad max with kids. Oh. And I think it’s, uh, like really violent and I don’t know, it’s something I want to check out eventually.

Todd: Okay. It did premiere, um, not turbo kid, but summer of 84 did premiere at the 2018 Sundance film festival. And did have a limited release in theaters in August two years ago. So, um, most of the critics seem to really like this movie and praise it. If you go on rotten tomatoes, I think it’s over 70% positive on that.

And it is clearly, if you can’t tell by the title, it’s clearly, um, It’s fan service for people who like eighties movies, right? It’s um, it’s your classic, uh, kids go on a summer adventure movie, akin to Goonies and, you know, monster squad and those kinds of things. It’s also very similar to the burbs except with kids.

Right. And the general premise is that. These, this group of kids, or particularly this one kid named Davey, uh, starts to believe that his neighbor across the street, who’s also a police officer, uh, happens to be a serial killer in their city. Uh, their town of Cape may. I believe it’s called Cape may. Oregon is what it’s supposed to be.

There’s a bunch of killings that have been going on. A lot of kids have been going missing and, and have been apparently for years. Uh, and, uh, he thinks that his neighbors, one of them, so. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this movie. Maybe I enjoyed it a little too much simply because it was directly feeding me, you know, little bits and snippets and pieces of 1984, kind of in the same vein as stranger things does, but is a little different.

So, um, yeah, I, I was really happy that you propose this film, Craig and I enjoyed watching it. Uh, had you seen it before? Had you heard of other things about it before?

Craig: No, I just came across it on shutter. You’re right. They, they should be paying us cause, uh,

Todd: I.

Craig: I th they, they should just be paying me personally.

Cause I’m telling everybody, I know you got to get on there cause there’s some really good stuff in there. Uh, exclusive and original content. I’ve actually just been really impressed by plus they’ve got tons of old horror and stuff too, but you’re right. This is, um, Definitely fan service for those of us who are fans of horror from the eighties, the vibes, you already mentioned like a monster squad, for sure.

The Goonies in a subject matter, very reminiscent of rear window. Um, and fright night, even, um, like. Some ETE vibes. Yeah. You know, it just, it’s a total throwback to our childhood and adolescence. These boys, um, hang out in a tree house, they ride their bikes everywhere. You know, they play neighborhood. Games for, for my neighborhood.

It was always capture the flag, but they play this game called manhunt, which is kind of seems like the same thing. There’s so much eighties here.

Todd: Actually.

Craig: It is, it is, but, but I loved it. And these guys, this group of guys, uh, some of them. Uh, you’ll recognize from other things. To be honest, it’s been a few weeks since I watched this, but, uh, one of the guys, I think it’s, uh, the guy named eats who’s played by Judah Lewis is that that’s the kid from the babysitter, right?

Yeah. Which

Todd: we also talked about. Yep. He’s the one. Yeah.

Craig: And I really liked him in that movie. And a couple of the other guys are kind of familiar too. There’s of course like the kind of nerdy one fair day. Woody is the heavyset one who also looks, he’s a great big guy. He there, these kids are supposed to be what, like.

13, no 15. Is that right? 15. Yeah. Yeah. It’s supposed to be 15. And for the most part, I mean, they look pretty young. I don’t know how old they are, uh, in real life, but, uh, they, they seem, the boys are good enough actors and have good enough chemistry that you really just buy them as friends. And as much as you know, they do go on kind of this mystery adventure.

There’s also just a lot of cute and sometimes. Tender moments between these guys too. And I was just really happy to go on this ride with them, which is fun, but ultimately becomes high stakes and gets pretty scary, uh, at points. So I, I do think that it falls. Uh, you know, it is mostly a mystery, but we definitely get some horror elements, especially in the last half hour or so.

Todd: Yeah, I would say the last half hour definitely takes a turn that it wasn’t a turn I was not expecting, but I think the tone. I was definitely not expecting it does get very, very dark, uh, and, and actually has a very bleak ending, which, uh, you know, as I was watching this movie, as we’ve talked about before, my wife is not particularly fond of, of scary movies as a, as your partner.

In this sense I was watching and thinking, Oh, this was something we could have sat down and watched together really enjoyed. And then by the time we got to the end of it, I thought, ah, Nash, she would have had

darn it. The last, the first our was, you know, quite charming and sweet and then the last 20 minutes or so, uh, it suddenly gets very dark. So, uh, this would have been something I think could have been rated. I don’t know what it is, Ray, is it PG 13 or is it actually are, probably are. It’s got a bunch of F bombs.

Craig: It’s a little dark. Yeah.

Todd: Who would have been PG 13 if it weren’t for how it ends? I think I would say so.

Craig: Well. And another thing that I thought was good about it is that it, it kept me guessing. I wasn’t sure. You know, you laid out the basic premise. It opens up with the main kid, Davey, uh, doing his paper route on his bike and.

Over that he’s got a monologue where he talks about even serial killers live next door to somebody. Um, the suburbs are where the craziest stuff happens. And like you said, these boys have gone missing. We don’t even really know that. At first he delivers a paper to his neighbor and his neighbor is a cop.

Uh, who’s. Last name is Mackie. That, which is what they always call them. I don’t even notice. First name is Wayne and, and this guy, he doesn’t look too particularly imposing. Uh, in fact, he’s kind of a chubby guy and he seems. Friendly, but he invites Davey in, uh, Davey gets his attention cause um, he needs paid.

He hasn’t paid for his paper subscription or whatever, and he’s like, Oh yeah, sorry, I’ll get you your money or whatever. But while you’re here, can you come in? And helped me lift something. And this is exactly what we were warned against in the APC, or get into a car with a stranger, never. We were warned about these things.

And then at the same time, our parents would send us door to door to sell things for school. And like, we would totally interact with strangers all the time.

Todd: It was a real dichotomy there. Yeah. It was a

Craig: total mixed message, which is in the eighties. So Davey goes in and the house seems pretty normal.

There’s a lot of family photos on the wall and he says something like big family hug. And he’s like, yeah, but I don’t really have any family around here, you know, which is good. Cause they’re not stopping by all the time. He’s like, but I need you to help me carry this thing down into the basement. I don’t even remember what it was.

Some big like cabinet or something. And they go down there and it’s just kind of creepy because it’s a basement and they’re alone. Um, and Davie notices a padlocked room down there and there’s another room that’s lit in all red. I am putting the finishing touches on my dark room. So I’m an amateur photographer.

I figured that this beast can help store some equipment. That’s cool. Um, I’m sort of an amateur videographer, so I get it.

Todd: It’s just like the old

Craig: man. I got, I remember when your parents would push you around the block in a stroller. Now look at you. How old are you? Anyway? 15. 15 is the perfect age. I wish I could just freeze it for you.

You know, and of course I know that this is a scary movie, so. Everything is suspect. Uh, and so that line made me pause, like, ah, well, that’s kinda creepy.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I thought that too, this guy’s played by rich Sommer who, uh, I don’t know if you recognize him from anything. I really enjoyed him as Harry Crane and madman, and he has this real personality.

The guy is actually quite good at comedy, but. He’s really good at just playing this nice kind of affable friendly everyday dude. And like you said, you feel like, because you’re watching a horror movie, you’re waiting, you’re looking for these clues and you’re suspect of everybody who you come across. And what their motivations might be, and right away, you’re kind of being set up for this guy to be a suspicious character in the movie.

But at the same time, you know, that’s the trope, right? So you’re always wondering, is this film going to subvert? My expectations? Is it toying with me? And I think this actor in this role does a very good job of riding that line so that you never really know whether he’s, uh, hiding something or whether he’s just this affable guy, but.

He is quite amiable to the kids, uh, and really friendly. And the interesting thing about it is that as the movie goes on, you really get the sense that this guy’s a kid at heart. There are a lot of these subtle clues, not so subtle clues actually. Of how he interacts with the neighborhood boys as a police officer and just out on his front porch, there’s a scene later where he’s wa he’s just sitting out on his porch, watching the kids across the street, playing ball.

And he brings out a cooler full of like, I dunno, ice pops or something that says, Hey, who wants one? And grab them. And he just sits there and smiles and you know, this is the kind of thing. And the con that w I think maybe. We’re overly sensitive to nowadays. Oh yeah. You know, single man likes kids and, you know, lives by himself and goes out of his way to give them candy and invite them over.

I think back then probably we were a little sensitive to it too. Our parents were, but not as much as, as we are now.

Craig: Well, and I think that kind of what. The movie is playing on his then. And even to an extent, now, you don’t suspect your neighbors. You know, it’s, it’s always somebody else, you know, it’s not just, it’s not the nice guy who lives next door.

That doesn’t make any sense. It’s somebody else. This happens to other people in other places. Of course, that’s not true, which is why. Uh, the kid says in the beginning, even serial killers live next door to somebody

Todd: in case you don’t know where this movie is going well. And also he’s got this history with the kids, right? I mean, flat out all the last time I saw you, you know, you were this high or I was helping your dad with something. So it’s not like he’s a new guy in town either. Right, right, right, right.

Craig: Yeah. He’s been there since they were little kids and a police officer and he’s a cop.

Right, exactly. But that night, the boys and not just our main group of boys, but like the whole neighborhood of boys are out playing this manhunt game. Night in the dark. Um, but Davey sees a curly haired boy in Mackey’s kitchen and then somebody like startles him and he looks away. And when he looks back, the kid’s not there anymore, but Davie’s into conspiracy theories.

Anyway, like he’s got his whole room is lined with newspapers, like crime stories. And then we get some cute set up, you know, the kids bike around to cruel summer, which, you know, is. Super eighties, total throwback to karate kid. We’re introduced to there’s another neighbor girl. Who’s a little older than them named Nikki, who they all have a kind of a crush on and she’s cute.

Pretty girl. Um, but then the serial killer story breaks. And apparently this has been going on for a while, but the police have now gotten a letter from somebody who has said they are doing this and they signed it. The Cape may Slayer and they S on the profile, they say it’s probably a white male.

Probably between 30 and 40, probably living alone targets boys 14 to 15 years old. And eventually there’s a thing where one of their friends from the neighborhood Sammy and his family have been gone for a while, but their car is still there and they think that’s weird. But then when it. Really amps up is when Davey sees the curly haired boy that he had seen in Mackey’s house.

He sees him on. A milk carton. And so at that point, he is convinced that Mackey’s the Cape may Slayer, even though his friends are initially skeptical, he says, no, that’s it that’s it. Nobody would ever suspect a cop. And so that’s when they basically start spying on him and they track his schedule and check out his mail and his garbage and, and all kinds of things.

And yeah, I mean, that’s a good one. Part of it is just them kind of watching him.

Todd: Yeah. It’s just so classic for these kinds of movies. And as you said before, the movies just dripping with references to eighties. And so what we’re getting for this first half hour is this. Pretty long protracted setup, uh, or we’re introduced to these characters and these kids are meeting and they’re meeting in a tree house.

I mean, this is all quite classic, but like you said, it’s really more about getting to know these boys and their relationships. And as you get to know the boys. And again, one thing I appreciate about this movie was it wasn’t really thrown in our face. And a lot of it was just kind of offhand, but all of them, almost all of them have a little bit of problems at home eats is the kid who’s got, you know, who’s got kind of where the slacks close and longer hair and listens to like heavy metal or care bands or whatever.

And he is clearly has some issues with his parents fighting at home. And, uh, the, the overweight kid you mentioned earlier, Woody, he’s got some problems at home with his mom. His mom is, um, always depressed and upset. Was she divorced? What was the deal with her? Was she,

Craig: I don’t think no, but I actually really liked the way that the movie handled this.

I thought that it was kind of surprisingly sophisticated in some way. Like usually. You know, these kids, like in the Goonies, you know, they all have this problem where their neighborhood is getting bought out, you know, by the rich people in town or whatever. Uh, but here, these kids kind of have real issues.

Now, Faraday the dorky, when it seems like his family is very normal and Davy’s family is, is pretty normal. But, uh, yeah, like you said, eats, it seems like he comes from maybe. I dunno, an abusive household, but definitely a lot of, um, tension there. You hear his parents screaming at each other from inside his brothers, also kind of an older loser, but the end and everybody they’re super horny all the time.

They’re all the time looking at Nudie magazines and like humping on each other and stuff, which is. Funny. Yeah.

Todd: Cracking jokes about getting tail and stuff. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. Well, and, and, and looking at the neighbor girl through binoculars out the window, and it’s all very classic, uh, 80 stuff, but eats is all the time making sexual remarks about.

Woody’s mom. And every time he does what he’s like, dude, don’t talk about my mom like that. It’s not funny. And you know, we used to razz each other like that when we were kids. Um,

Todd: yeah. Mom jokes with, just to think.

Craig: Yeah. You see just in a very brief moment, you know what he asks? I think, yes, Davey, if he can spend the night.

And Davy says, yeah. And what he goes home to get his stuff. And his mom is there and she’s, I think a waitress she’s in some sort of uniform and she’s just sitting on the couch, crying and drinking and smoking and he lays her down and covers her up and says, it’s going to be okay. And she just looks at him and says, you’re so good.

And it was sad. Like you just kind of get the sense that this woman has problems, whether she’s struggling with. Divorce or if her husband left or if she’s just struggling with being a single mom or whatever it is she’s not doing well. And you see why eats makes all these sexual jokes about her because she’s beautiful.

She’s, she’s young and gorgeous. Um, but you also see why would he would take not offense, but why it would bother him because his, his mom has problems. It’s just a little bit more true to life. Then your typical eighties fare, maybe that’s more of a 20, 20 sensibility in the filmmaking. I don’t know, but I liked it.

Todd: I didn’t, well, it also kind of works well with the theme, right? I mean, a lot of these movies, the suburbs was this idyllic place where all the crazy adventures happen, but everything kind of ends up. Okay. And kids are having fun and playing outside, not to say that, you know, there isn’t, haven’t been conflict in those eighties movies.

I mean, you know, the karate kid and. But in general, you know, that tended to be the feel of the movies and of the areas that kind of came before it, you know, Dennis, the menace and Lassie and stuff like the suburbs are just this nice, fun, happy place. And so from the beginning monologue, and then, like you said, very sophisticated and subtly introducing these problems and showing you that all these kids, they have other considerations besides their adventure real life, crap that they have to deal with.

That people from the suburbs and who live out in these nice manicured lawns are not immune to. And I think that just plays in well with the theme of the movie. It’s cute because he’s looking out the window at this girl across the street, whose name is Nikki? And like you said, she’s made, she’s like a couple years older.

I think she’s probably about to graduate. About how she’s going to go to Stanford.

Craig: She used to babysit him when he was younger. So they’ve known each other for a long time.

Todd: Yeah. So they have this little history and that kind of talk about how cute she is. And he looks out the window at her and at one point she looks back at him and she sees that he’s looking at her, then there’s this really great moment.

A little later, when. She comes over. Uh, this is the time actually, when you said that, um, that Woody was supposed to come over to his house, he’s waiting for Woody to come over. And when he opens the door, he thinks it’s Woody, but it’s her. And she just walks inside and his parents happened to be gone and she helps herself to a soda from the.

Fridge and she’s being very suggestive and she goes upstairs to his bedroom and picks up the binoculars and looks out the window.

Craig: Huh? Better view of my room than I thought. I’ve never seen you naked. It’s too bad. I’ve got a great body.

Yes. She’s being very flirty with him, which I didn’t know what. To think at first, in fact, the first time I watched this movie, I’ve seen it twice. I watched it again for the podcast, but the first time I watched it, I didn’t know what was going on with her. And in fact, I thought she was a little shady and I kept questioning.

I maybe even thought that she was, was

Todd: somehow on it. Yeah, me too.

Craig: I say in on it, like, I didn’t know exactly what was going on. But if there was something going on, I thought maybe she was in on it. Cause she always kind of pops up at surprising times too.

Todd: Yeah. Well, I had the same suspicions. I mean, I thought his parents were in on it at some point.

Because there are little things that happen there too, you know, where they kind of allude to the past or the neighbor across the street that the police officer we were talking about was up in their attic, helping them move things. So there’s some times when his parents exchanged looks with each other, that you’re kind of wondering what’s going on.

There’s a little bit, I think of suspicion cast on everybody, or maybe it’s just the paranoia of me watching a movie like this and expecting a twist. Right. But, yeah, she’s really, it’s really hard to know what she’s getting at here with him in the bedroom,

Craig: as it turns out, she’s just kind of toying with him because they do have this previous relationship.

Um, and ultimately they really. Become and remain friendly.  and that part, there’s a part of me. That’s like, that’s not believable. The pretty 17 year old girl is not going to be chummy with this geeky little 15 year old boy. But then I was like, yeah, they’ve known each other for a really long time. They have a history.

And so I do believe,

Todd: I think the circumstances were what really preempted that. I mean, when she later, uh, when she talks to him, she opens up and says, we’re going to be moving.

Craig: Because her parents are getting a divorce.

Todd: And then, you know, again, this is another like

Craig: eighties. I was just going to say, and we had heard that because, um, Davey’s parents had been talking about it and the mom had said something like, Oh my gosh, I had no idea.

They were even having problems and the dads as well. That’s why curtains were invented, which again goes back to that. What you had said before, kind of the whole theme. You never really know what goes on behind closed doors. Yes. The suburbs are kind of this facade of normalcy and safety, but you really never know what’s going on behind closed doors and, and her experience mirrors that too.

And ultimately. She is reaching out to Davey because she just needs somebody to talk to like, to kind of work through this stuff. And they do periodically throughout the movie. They just get together and hang out and talk. And it’s really sweet.

Todd: Yeah. It’s sweet. And they don’t kiss or anything. I mean, it’s just, uh, like you said, it’s, it’s like her about to go through all these changes and I thought this was very.

Eighties. I mean, I don’t mean to downplay divorce. Divorce can be very tough on children, but I think, especially in the eighties, we felt like this was kind of like the end of the world, or at least the media was telling us that this does irreparable damage to your children and your families. And I know that, you know, it was a scandalous thing at that time, the two people would get divorced and this was a theme, you know?

So this being a throwback movie that really kinds of fits. But what do you do? You know what I mean? She’s about to go off to college. She’s going to go to Stanford. They’re going to move. Her parents are getting a divorce. So she goes back to retreats back to the nostalgia of when she remembered better times.

And that was her friend across the street. So I felt like the motivation was quite good. But as you said, you don’t know this right away. So you’re very suspicious and wondering why is she so eager to come over and talk with him and be alone in his room and kind of, why are they sneaking around? Of course his friends are totally.

Impressed by it. That’s kind of cool for him that doesn’t always happen.

Craig: It’s cute. You know, one of the early times. That they’re talking, he confides in her what they’re doing and she tells him, Oh, you’re crazy. You know, he’s a cop. And, and David’s like, yeah, but, and she’s like, no, he’s friends with my dad.

Like, you know, like again, it’s that we know this guy and she encourages him. To to stop. She’s like, you’re going to get caught. You’re going to get in trouble. And he says, no, I won’t. And they don’t quit. Like I said, they, they go through his mail, they go through his trash, but they never really find anything.

Um, eventually they go back to that house where their friend lives, but who he’s been gone for awhile, they break in and they look around and there’s a jump scare. Cause Nicky is in there. And again, I was like, what is she doing in there? It seems super shady, but she just. They’re on vacation. They rented a camper.

I’m taking care of their cats, which is totally believable. Uh, I was still suspicious, but totally believable, but it was also cute in that moment because Nikki and Davey are talking and the friends are surprised because they thought that he was bullshitting them, that he had been spending time with her.

And they’re like, Whoa, it’s true. And I thought it was adorable. She totally. Plays it up for him. Like she says something like, he’s more of a man than you guys will ever be. And she gives him a little kiss on the cheek and walks around and they all, you know, these little teenage boys guide to have this.

Oh yeah. Like they’re giving each other high-fives and she’s just standing around the corner smiling. And I just thought how cute, but having seen the babysitter. Okay. It gave me that vibe too. Is she going to sacrifice him? Devil later, I don’t

Todd: sorry. Spoiler alert to anyone who hasn’t seen a babysitter yet. I think this is the thing that, um, it wasn’t maddening to me because I was just in the right frame of mind to watch this movie and to go through this with them. But I will admit, and I think some of the criticism that some people have said online about it is it is a little bit.

Slow the buildups a little slow. And it’s true because the guys go over and they S they go through his trash. They really don’t find anything. You know, they follow his car, they see that he’s getting shovels and dirt, but they don’t really find anything. They go to the neighbor’s house. They don’t really find anything, you know?

Yeah.

Craig: So it’s just a lot to walkie talkie outside his window. They don’t really

Todd: find it. He’s like, Oh, you know, he’s got some, he’s digging up his garden. The whole thing. He’s buying tons and tons of dirt, apparently, and a pickax and a shovel. And they’re wondering, they’re figuring he’s bearing bodies in his backyard.

Cause he’s building a garden back there, but it’s clearly a shitty garden. Uh, and they climb up to plant the walkie-talkie like you said, but that kind of gets. Oiled and, and, and he sees them outside the window. Like, there’s a kind of a scare where they’re creeping around looking at his window. And one of them climbs the trellis up to the, his bedroom window where they’re going to try to plant this cheap ass GI Joe walkie talkie.

And, uh, he’s up there with like, Bleach and gloves and cleaning supplies and things. And then

Craig: it looks like he has blood on his shirt.

Todd: Yeah. And he kind of goes down and they say, Oh, he’s going to the basement. And the other kid runs down to the basement on the outside of course, and sees that the windows are blacked over.

And then at that moment, they’re looking in the windows and boom, you know, he sees Davey through the window and Davey runs off and their whole thing is like, look, if we get caught, we’re just going to say we were playing manhunt. And so that’s, you know, excusable or whatever. So Davy, uh, realizes that he has left the walkie-talkie there, uh, that they didn’t make it up to the window, but it was stuck in the trellis.

So he goes back over and of course the neighbor confronts him,

Craig: baby. Don’t say scared the hell out of me last night. Uh, yeah. Yeah, we were, um, Sorry about that. Just you’re just playing manhunt and I didn’t expect you there. No, I got a lot of good hiding spots for manhunt. Yeah. You’re you’re, it’s full of them because he didn’t see me come in either though.

So what’s up. Wait, let me guess, Oh, your money. Uh, yeah, I’m ready

Todd: for you. This time.

Craig: Run back.

Todd: Davey notices, the walkie talkie there, and Mackie looks at Davey and Davies walkie-talkie that he has on his belt kind of goes off and he looks down at, and he says, Oh, are you guys playing with, with, with that walkie talkie?

You know, it’s kinda cheap. It doesn’t get a good range. I’ve got. Some awesome. Walkie-talkies inside, obviously they’re cop radios and he said, uh, they pick up everything you could. You’re welcome to use them if you want.

Craig: And he, yeah, just come inside with me and I’ll get them

Todd: four and two. Still very cautious.

He’s like, nah, I’m not going to go inside. No, that’s okay. Now maybe later is like, all right, well, whenever you want to just go. And so, you know, he leaves and, uh, and still at this point, you’re not sure, but you’re kind of wondering how is this neighbor? Is he, is he real? Is he not

Craig: stuff, you know, everything that’s going on could have a rational explanation.

No, the guy gardens. Yeah. There’s a big mound of dirt in his garden. It could be a grave. It could just be a garden that night after the second. Meeting, um, Davey is up looking through his window with his binoculars and across the way he sees Mackey looking back at him through binoculars, which freaks them out.

But whatever, dude, you’re looking at him, why, why shouldn’t he be looking out his window in the monoculars? Right. Um, but it is suspenseful. It’s creepy. Cause we don’t know, but he tells the, his friends look they’re they’re onto us. And so they set up this plan where fair day and Woody follow Mackey heat.

They know that he goes jogging every night at like 1130, um, and then eats and Davey while he’s gone, they dig up his garden, but they don’t find anything fair and Woody follow him. On foot and see that he has this storage unit and it’s got an, uh, a car in it, a Volkswagen in it, which I read was the same model that was Ted Bundy’s car, but trivia.

Um, and like he, he jogs there, but then he leaves in the Volkswagen. They see that he’s got a bunch of dirt and pickaxes and stuff in there when eats and Davey can’t find anything in the ground, they break into his. Gardening shed and Davy finds the missing boys shirt with blood on it. The, the boys that had followed Mackey report that he had sodium hydroxide in his storage unit and they looked that up and they said that it’s used for breaking down organic tissue.

Uh, and then it’s often used to dissolve roadkill. So now they actually have some evidence and Davy says, all right, guys, It’s time to tell my parents.

Todd: I was not expecting this by the way,

Craig: I wasn’t either, but he’s right. It is time to tell your parents

Todd: kind of thing they’re supposed to do in these movies.

And they never do. They never go to the police. They never tell their parents or they’ll go to the police, but the police completely make fun of them. But, uh, in this case, yeah. They tell the parents and the parents are like, what are you? Are you, are you talking about immediately? They dismiss it. And they say, this is crazy.

And you’ve been sneaking around and you’ve been digging up his garden and you’ve been stealing his stuff. And dad says, you’re going to go over there and apologize right now. And they all have to go across the street. And his dad knocks on the door and Mackey comes to the door and dad makes him apologize.

Just reveals everything that they did. And he doesn’t even know everything that they did to them. Right. Like, uh, digging up the garden and

Craig: whatnot. If he does, he plays dumb.

Todd: Yeah, exactly.

Craig: But, but again, so nice about it. He’s like, ah, I get it. He’s like, you know, I was into conspiracies when I was a kid too.

He’s like, it gets boring in the suburbs in the summer. You gotta have something to do ministry, you know? And he’s like no hard feelings, no big deal. And the kid’s like, well, but I saw this kid in your house. He’s like, Oh, that was my nephew. He was here for a visit. Uh, come on in, we’ll call him. He’ll tell you.

And they’re like, No. It’s okay. He’s basically like, look, it’s totally fine. It’s no big deal. I get it. No big deal, but David’s dad is like, well, They’re going to fix everything that they broke. They’re going to fix your garden and Davey’s grounded for the rest of the summer. And then there’s a little bit like Davey talks to Nikki again.

And she realizes that he’s got caught and she’s like, see, I told you that he’s like, well, but if I’m right, who’s going to stop him. And then I think maybe one of my favorite scenes, one of the most tense scenes. Um, daddy’s home alone. I assume his parents are at work, eh, cause it’s during the day, the morning I think, and there’s a knock on the door and it’s Mackey and he’s like, look, I just wanted to stop by and say, there’s no hard feelings.

I don’t want there to be any tension between us. And he’s like, can I come in? It’s like, No,

but he’s like, listen, everything’s cool. You don’t have to be worried about anything. I promise you, I’m going to do everything that I can to catch this bastard. And he says, is there anything that I can do to make you feel better? And Davy’s like, Well, you said before that you would call your nephew, could you call him now?

And he’s like, yeah. And David’s like, okay, hold on here. I’m going to go get the phone. Well, while he goes and gets the phone, Mackey comes in the house, which I thought. It was scary.

Todd: It specifically said, you know, no, no, no, it’s okay. I’ll get the phone for you. It’s got a long cord. And he’s like, all right, right.

Takes a few steps in anyway, very scary.

Craig: And he’s looking around and Davey sees that he’s come in. So he grabs the knife and he holds it behind his back, but he brings the phone to Mackey and Mackie dials it. And he’s like, they’re in they’re in Ohio or something. I don’t know. He calls the number and it rings and rings and rings.

He’s like, Hmm. Weird. They must not be home. If you want to come over later, we can try again later and David’s like, no, it’s cool. And then Mackey leaves and Davey is so smart. I never would have thought of this. Uh, he goes back to the phone and he dials the operator and he says, can you tell me what the last number was that was dialed from this line?

And she does the operator does. And he writes it down on a pad of phone numbers. That that’s hanging on the refrigerator and he looks, and they have a list of all of their neighbor’s phone numbers, which we did in the eighties. And. It’s Mackey’s number Mackey, head dialed his own number. So at this point, I thought, well, he’s obviously right.

You know, um, it must be him, but that nut. And so David calls all of his friends over that night and he’s like, look, guys, it really is him. And they’re like, you know, We’ve already gotten in trouble for this. I don’t, they don’t, they’re really reluctant. They don’t want to do it anymore. And then the mom calls Davey down because there’s a press conference and they say that they have captured the Cape may Slayer or whatever.

And guess who the cop, the arresting officer was Mackie and Davey, you know, he tells his friends look, it’s it’s, it’s not true. It’s him. And they don’t believe him, but they agree to help. And so. While everybody else goes to this big Bay festival, which is apparently a big thing for their town. Fair is there with his parents.

So he watches Mackie eats, sits at a bus stop, I guess, as a lookout in case Mackey comes home. I wasn’t really sure about that. I was afraid at this point. I’m still second guessing. I think it’s gotta be Mackey, but then I’m like, well, what if it isn’t because we’ve already seen, we didn’t mention, we’ve already seen one teenage boy, get.

Swiped off the street. Right. And so I was really worried that eats was going to get kidnapped, but Woody and Davey break into Mackey’s house with, uh, Davy’s dad’s video camera. Davey’s dad is a, uh, like a news camera man. And Nikki just happens to pop up and she’s there too. And so looking around in his house, meanwhile, Faraday sees that.

Mackey has been helping these other cops do this big garden in the park for the Bay festival. And he’s like, Oh, well that explains everything that explains all the dirty explains all the tools. And so he calls Davian on the walkie-talkie and says you were wrong. Um, I’ll explain it later, but you’re wrong.

We’re, we’re calling it all off, but Davey is still convinced. So they break into the basement and it’s spooky down there. Uh, and th they, they. Break into the padlocked room and it looks like a kid’s room bedroom.

Todd: Yeah. It’s so weird.

Craig: And, and not just a kid’s bedroom, but like, A kid’s bedroom from the past.

Now I’m guessing you mentioned earlier and I had never really thought about it until you said it, but that Mackie seems to be kind of like a kid at heart. And I think you’re right. I think that’s kind of what the psychosis is here. I think that he’s clinging to that somehow, which is why he still has his room set up.

Like it. Was before or whatever, but there’s nothing, all that weird about it. I mean, it’s just a bedroom. Um, but then they notice another door. They open it up and in there they find pictures of the missing kid and then they find a body being dissolved in the tub and then

Todd: okay.

Craig: An arm reaches out and grabs one of them.

And it’s the kid that we saw get swiped off the street. So without question, it’s first sure. Mackey, um, and they all run upstairs and before they run out. They look at the pictures on the wall that we had seen earlier, and they realized that it’s not pictures of Mackey’s family. It’s pictures of all of his victims.

And Davey sees a picture of his family there. So it seems pretty apparent that Mackey was grooming Davey and Davey was probably going to be next. Well, they go, they go to the police and the police. The, they have all the evidence and they have it all on tape. We never see that kid again, but obviously that kid was still alive.

He could tell them what happened. So they set out to arrest Mackie that they can’t find him. And this is where things. Not necessarily took a surprising turn, but I was surprised at how quickly and how dark it got, because Mackey who has been this affable kind of guy, shady, suspicious, but friendly. All of a sudden we see his true colors and it’s scary.

Todd: It is, and this is the point where the movie really subverts your expectations that he goes to the police. He’s got the evidence, the police completely believe him. They go to find him he’s gone. Um, but the police chief says to his parents, you should be proud of your son. He’s a hero. If he hadn’t been down there, this kid would, would have been dead.

He just gets everything. That he wants. And then the next scene is that the guy’s still gone. Davey is at home and he looks out his window and the cops are across the street, searching the house. Okay.

Craig: And what are you spending the night?

Todd: Yeah. What are you spending the night? And the dad just looks in there and he says, all right, well, we’re gonna, we’re gonna take good care of you guys.

We’re gonna keep a watch out for him. I’m sure they’ll find him. It’s going to be fine. And he leaves. Yeah. And, uh, Davey looks out the window and Mackie and Woody comes over and he says, do you think they’ll catch him? And Davy says, there’s nowhere left to hide. It’s over. And I’m like, Nope, because there’s still about 15 minutes left in this movie.

Yes. Definitely not over. And sure enough. As they’re sleeping, the camera creeps around through the hallway and the attic opens up. And, uh, it’s one of those attic doors where the ladder drops down and these legs come down the ladder and very quietly creep into his room. And, uh, Davey gets chloroforms. And when he wakes up, he and Woody are in the backseat of a car police car and they don’t know where they are and they wake up and Davey is able to untie Woody’s.

Bonds. And they’re able to kind of get free. And at that time, somebody starts smashing the window of the car, opens the window of the car. Uh, and of course, Mackey is there terrorizing them, S jumps at them through the window and they run out the door into the woods and he’s on the speaker saying, okay, you know, you guys want to play man hunt.

Now we’re going to play man hunt for real. And, uh, they start tearing off through the woods only. They can’t find a road or anything. They come to water and then they turn and they come to water again and they say, Oh my God, we’re on the Island. We’re on the Island in the middle of the Bay or whatever. So this guy comes running after them and pursuing them.

Davey is up against a tree and, uh, And Mackey cuts his, his what’s that called the heel

Craig: Achilles tendon. Yeah, just, I mean, while they’re being chased, they come into this kind of marshy area and they really see all these bones. This is clearly where Mackey has been, uh, disposing of his victims and they’re all dissolved and nasty and gross.

Todd: Yeah. He’s not been too subtle about it. Unfortunately, he should be a little deeper,

Craig: you know, they’re running around. They’re just in there. Socks, you know, they were in bed he’s nearby and what he says, I can’t die tonight. David, my mom and, uh, David says you’re not going to die tonight. And Davey takes off on his own and taunts, um, Mackey so that he will follow him.

And he does, uh, Mackey does follow him. But like you said, he finally catches up to him, surprises him from the back and cut his Achilles tendon that never heals. I. Was like, that’s the first thing I thought, like, I don’t know, maybe in 2020, there are things that they can do to repair that. But as far as I know, like if you’re a tendon, Achilles tendon is severed, it’s very difficult to repair and you’re immediately hobbled.

Like you cannot walk on that leg, uh, if, if that happens, but he doesn’t kill. Davey right away. Instead he heads back towards the car. Um,

Todd: Woody

Craig: Woody gets back to the car and is kind of standing there, looking around and Mackey attacks him from the back and slit his throat. And I was so upset. So

Todd: cream really upsetting this, this, and the way it was shot in everything.

I mean, first of all, this is the affable likable, nice overweight kid. Who’s got the problems at home with his mom. I did not expect him to die in this movie.

Craig: No, he’s also been the one who has been the most loyal today mean throughout. Whereas the others were kind of like, eh, we don’t really want to what he was always there.

Like, you’re my best friend. I’m always going to have your back. And, um, and I just didn’t think it was going to happen. And you know, like his poor, sad mom, like

Todd: shot is so cruel. I mean, it’s, we’re on the ground with him. He’s facing the camera and you don’t even see Mackey. You just see him holding up his head and he just takes that knife across his throat.

And starts to just basically bleed them out like a pig. And this is all in one unbroken take that we see from beginning to end. It’s not glamorous at all. It’s it’s horrifying, horrifying. And this, I mean, this is what I was like, Oh my God. I could not believe the movie was going to get this dark. And

Craig: I couldn’t either.

I was really surprised.

Todd: Yeah. Um,

Craig: sad. But on the other hand, kind of like, you know, what good for you for going for it? I mean, that’s how bad this guy is. Right? Yeah. And I also thought that it was so creepy. Davey comes back and finds what he’s body and then Mackie grabs Davie, and throws him up against the car.

All you had to do was leave me alone. Because you’re a God damn fault

you stole my life

to be sorry.

Do you want to spend some time thinking about me? I want you to keep thinking about me.

I am going to do, when I come back for you,

I am going to come back for you. After you spent your wife.

Single day.

And so he just leaves him. Yeah. And Davey crawls along the street until he gets picked up, um, a man just finds him in the road and then Davey has his final monologue, which calls back to the first monologue. And he says, the suburbs are where the craziest stuff happens. People hardly ever let you know who they really are.

Even serial killers live next door to somebody. And we’re also kind of seeing, like, it looks like. Eats his family is maybe moving or something, right.

Todd: Woody’s house is for sale. Yeah,

Craig: he’s doing his, um, paper ride on his bike again, but he’s got this big brace on his, uh, ankle, which I assume he’ll probably have to wear for the rest of his life.

And so again, it hits back at that theme of you never know what’s going on. Behind closed doors. And I think that it really establishes that theme really well, but I also thought that the ending was so good because Mackey’s punishment of Davey. He’s right. It’s worse than killing him. My opinion, you know, cause that kid now is going to have to live the rest of his life, knowing.

That, that guy is out there somewhere and that he’s going to come back eventually. And when you think about that, how could you ever really get close to anybody when you would know that you were. Putting them in imminent danger. I mean that just fuck that kid’s whole life. And

Todd: the movie is barrage of depression.

I mean, as he’s going through his paper route, he passes Woody’s house, which is, you know, for sale. Nikki passes by in the car, waving goodbye. She’s moving away. Eats and Faraday are coming out and they have trashed a tree house and they’re throwing the pieces of the tree house down. That’s God. It’s like, you know, their childhood is done.

They’re not even looking at them. It’s like, they’re pissed at him. And then, you know, Mackey’s house has got the police tape over it. Uh, and then he opens up the newspaper and sees the headline, which basically says the killer is still at large, all over this monologue. And that’s the way the fricking movie ends.

It’s at a point where you, you feel guilty for having had fun with this movie. Yeah, it took such a sharp left turn and you’re like, Oh, this is this fun summer kids, adventure film, and the bad guy’s going to get it. And at the end of the day, you’re just struck with reality. Like, Nope, guess what? Most of the time bad guy gets away.

All kinds of crazy horrible shit happens in the suburbs and it stays crazy and horrible and never gets resolved and, uh, destroys homes and lives and families. And there you go. Credits. I just couldn’t believe the thematic one 80, the trick that had been pulled on me, uh, by the end of the movie, it was unbelievable.

Super dark and just left an icky feeling in my stomach.

Craig: Yes, it did. But also I found, okay, so all of the stuff leading up to it, I thought it was fun and I enjoyed it and I, regardless of how it turned out, I think, you know, I kind of expected. There would be a showdown, but then Mackie would probably get killed or get caught or something.

That’s what I was expecting. So if subverted my expectations and ultimately, even though it is really dark, and even though it is pretty depressing at the end, I was like, dang. I, I thought. They, they really surprised me there and I’m impressed. I’m impressed. They subverted my pit, my expectations in that way.

And I actually think that it’s a strength of the movie, that it doesn’t do what you expect it to do. Um, and I think that a lot of that comes from the, the actor who plays, Mackey his performance. I just think he does a great job in this. The only other thing I’ve ever seen him in, you mentioned madman. Um, he was in.

The Netflix series glow, um, and played a totally different character and even looked completely different. You know, glow was happening around the same time as this, but in that show he’s much leaner and he plays. This pretty boy, rich boy, who’s, you know, funds this women’s wrestling league or whatever. Um, and I really liked him in that, but he’s dope being goofy in that.

And here he’s a completely different character. Um, and he does such a good job of playing that facade and then allowing us to see his crazy at the end. I don’t know. I just have to say overall, I thought it was a really good movie. It was a surprise. I didn’t know anything about it. It was just, and this has happened to me with several movies on shutter, which is another plug for it.

You know, you can just look around and you’ll find these things that you’ve never heard of. Both old and new. I have watched several shutter exclusives and shutter originals that have been made in the past couple of years. And I’ve just been really impressed. And I’m glad that there’s a place for these kinds of movies because they typically don’t get.

Celebrated too much in the mainstream. So I’m really glad that there’s, you know, that AMC or whoever puts all this together. These are clearly people that, that like horror movies, the way that we like horror movies and there’s good quality stuff there. And I think that this is a quality movie. It’s well-made it’s well written.

It’s well active. I, I don’t really have much criticism of it at all.

Todd: Don’t get me wrong. I am not complaining about the ending. I I’m. I think the ending is great. Uh, you need something different, you know, we, we wanted something that’s just not going to be a carbon copy of those other films we had seen before.

And the fact that this got such an emotional reaction for me. And I really like. The theme. And shall we say it’s, it’s very apropos for today as well. I, I hate to dive into this territory, but you know, we’re at a time when the world isn’t such a great place to be in. And a lot of people like to look back and say, Oh, do you remember the good old days?

Like, you know, back when I was a kid in the eighties, we didn’t have any of these problems. People were nice to each other. There wasn’t this stuff, nothing bad ever happened. Right. But. No, actually things weren’t necessarily better before things like this were always happening. And despite, you know, the feel good movies of that time.

We had a lot of issues. So I felt like being true to life was good. I felt like it was making a little bit of a point that way. It was a great update in a way of that formula. You know, you can take this formula and you can follow it, but then kind of say something new with it. And I feel like that’s what this movie did.

Thematically. So I, and again, hit me at a very gut visceral level. I love these kids. I love spending time with them and it just destroyed me to see one of the nicest kids in the group get brutally murdered right in front of me. And the rest of them are just going to go their own, their own ways, I think, from here on out, and this is going to scar them for the rest of their lives.

I mean, I don’t want, I don’t wish that on anyone, but you know, it as a dramatic thing as a movie that I’m going to be thinking about for awhile, uh, it was very, very effective. So I feel like we need to package this episode up and send it to shutter. Maybe we’d get them to sponsor the show. They,

Craig: they do have shutter exclusive podcast to somebody.

Maybe we need to get on

Todd: somebody, write some notes, a petition or something for that. All right. Thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend and share it with shutter. You can tell them and all your friends that you can find as a two guys that read 40 net.com.

We’re online. Just search us two guys in a chainsaw, find us on Facebook, find us on Twitter. Shoot us a note there, give us some requests. We love to hear from you, what you thought of this movie. And this episode, if we see your request, we keep a nice long list and we’ll be sure to get to it sometime in the near future until that time I’ve taught.

And I’m Craig with two guys and a chainsaw.


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