Triangle

This week's request is a somewhat obscure time-tripping movie that we never would have found on our own. Thank you, Darren, for pointing us in the direction of Triangle - a solid thriller that we enjoyed a lot.

Assuming, of course you wanted us to review 2009's Triangle and not 2016's The Triangle...

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Triangle (2009)

Episode 219, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: and I’m Craig,

Todd: as you all know, we are continuing with our requests. We’re just plowing right on through the list. And Darren messaged us quite some time ago about a movie called the triangle. So we decided to sit down and watch a movie. Unfortunately, the movie that we’ve found and that we did is called triad.

It’s also a, a thriller horror movie, but we’re. Highly suspicious that this might not actually be the movie that Darren requests good. Now that we reflect upon it. So, yeah, Darren, you’re out there listening. We supremely apologize. If you didn’t want us to see 2009. Triangle. And instead wanted us to see the triangle from several years later.

So anyway, who cares? We’re watching, we watched the movie trying go from 2009. And that’s the one we’re going to talk about today. Yep. Greg, I have to be completely honest with you. I don’t really know how we’re going to talk about this movie. It’s perfectly fine. And actually it’s a, quite an interesting movie.

I enjoyed it. I loved watching it. However, it’s a difficult movie to discuss and talk about because the plot itself is kind of convoluted. It loops around and you know, our normal, uh, podcast scenario is here. We sit and we kind of talk linearly through the plot. And then we talk about the actors and the characters and what happens.

And, but this movie is not so linear. So it’s going to be more tricky. Uh, I think to follow our regular format, we’re just going to have to, I don’t know, like freestyle at this time around

as

Craig: opposed to our, you know, usually tightly scripted to scale

Todd: that’s right. Normally it’s just very extremely academic planned out, you know, discussion. Uh, yeah, exactly. So, uh, That’s basically the same. Yeah.

Craig: I know what you’re talking about. I think that the reason that it’s difficult to talk about is because it’s going to be near impossible, if not impossible, to just kinda.

Blow blow our wad right from the beginning, because yeah.

Todd: You don’t want to blow your water right at the beginning.

Craig: Usually not. I mean, it depends, but, uh, right, because the like, alright, here’s what I’m going to say. I liked this movie. I thought that it was clever and I thought that, uh, you know, it. If you care enough to kind of think about the writing and the inspiration.

Um, I think it’s actually very clever, but I will also say, and I’m interested to see if you thought the same thing. I found it pretty predictable. Like didn’t you kind of know what was going on from the beginning. Like not from the very beginning. But like

Todd: 15, 20 minutes in. Yeah. I don’t know. We seen this concept before.

And so it was predictable or was it just the sort of thing like, Oh yeah, I get what’s happening. And so, I mean, like, I might not know exactly how it’s all going to pan out at the end, but I kind of feel like, I know it’s all going to cycle back to the beginning and that’s how we’re going to be left

Craig: right now.

Also again, in all fairness, you know, uh, yes, this, we was a request, but I also had recently seen this on a list. I read all these lists on these, a horror website and, um, this one was under, um, Horror movies that have something to do with time travel or, or, uh, you know, some, some time alternate dimensions or something, right?

Yeah. So I kind of knew going in that there was going to be that element to it. And maybe if I hadn’t known that, then I wouldn’t have picked up on it so quickly. But, um, there were also not so blatant that it was lazy, but there were some like major clues, like, as I was watching, I was like, Oh, You know, little, little things that like, I felt like, Oh, okay.

Yeah. I, I know what’s going on, but you know, I think we can kinda, you know, break it down at least because from the beginning, at least it seems. Pretty much like a linear story. It’s a little bit confusing in the beginning. The movie, um, was filmed in Australia, right? I think Queensland,

Todd: yes. Yeah. It’s a British Australian film.

Craig: Yeah. It’s supposed to be set in Florida. Uh, but, uh, filmed in Australia and the star of the movie is Melissa George, who is recognizable. She’s actually done quite a few horror movies. She was in the Amityville remake. Uh, she was in Teresa’s, which I remember being pretty good. She was in 30 days of night and her name is Jess, the movie, and the movie opens up kind of ambiguous.

She’s. Uh, comforting a young boy, um, and saying to him, you just had a bad dream. Sometimes when you have bad dreams, you know, it makes you think that you saw bad things, but you really didn’t. And then it picks up with her kind of doing some mundane things, um, around the house, eventually getting in the car and.

Driving away, but yeah, I mean, I was just noticing little things, right. The beginning, like she, she, she hears her doorbell ring and she comes out and there’s nobody there. Uh, and I noticed right away that her address, whatever street she’s on her house number was two 37. Uh, and immediately that number. I was like, why do I know that number?

Uh, and I remembered pretty quickly that that’s the room. From Cru Kubrick’s the shining, the DNI is not supposed to go in. And that number pops up a couple of other times, and there are other little subtle nods to the shining. So I was already kind of excited about that. Cause I liked that the doorbell rings.

There’s nobody there. She sees a note on her refrigerator that says, Greg. The triangle Harbor, um, eight 30, uh, and then you just see her driving away. We ended up at this boat and all these people congregating on this boat. There’s a Sally, who’s this red headed girl. Uh, and, and I say, girl, these are all adults.

Downey is her husband. Um, Heather is Sally’s friend who she’s brought along to try to set up. With the captain of the boat named Greg, who is her friend. And then Victor played by a very young Liam Hemsworth. The last person to show up is, is Jess. Uh, our main character when she shows up, she’s kind of out of sorts so much so that they comment on it.

Like, it’s a thing, like why is she acting weird? And, um, Greg has the one who has invited her. I think we kind of find out, yeah. That he knows her. Like she’s a waitress in a diner that he frequents and they’re just kind of starting, you know, this kind of flirtatious, you know, relationship or whatever, but he’s invited her to go out sailing and he greets her.

Hey, what’s the matter you got nothing to apologize for it. What is it? Are you okay?

Well, listen, we don’t have to go today if you don’t want to.

Sure. Okay.

She was supposed to have brought her son who presumably is the kid that we saw her with earlier. She was supposed to bring him with, but she hasn’t. And she says that he’s at school. And we find out that even though it’s a Saturday, it’s feasible that you would be at school because he has special needs.

And he goes to a special needs school. That’s open seven days a week. So it starts out and then they go sailing. They give us five minutes. So getting to know who these people are. And all we really learned is that Sally and Downey are kind of douche bags, like juice bags. Just kind of douche bags. Um, Heather, we don’t really know anything about at all.

Um, and Victor is like, you know, this young vagabond that Greg has taken in and Greg seems like a nice guy, that’s it? That’s like all of the characters

Todd: yeah.

Craig: In about five minutes. And then, you know, it’s beautiful. They’re sailing. It’s great. And then all of a sudden the wind dies and immediately after that, This huge, scary storm rolls in.

And right before the storm hits, Greg tries to call the coast guard and kind of gets in touch with them, but it’s fuzzy. But also at the same time, he hears a distress call from a woman. But. The receptionist so bad that he just kind of hears this woman’s saying help. And that’s all there is to the big storm comes.

It’s scary. And the boat capsizes and all of that is the buildup to then what becomes the central plot. And I just made that sound terribly plotting. It’s really not because it all happens so quickly, but yeah, I wanted to get through it because that’s, you know, when we get to. This central action.

Todd: It’s very economical in the beginning.

You know, I mean, we, we get to hear their relationships quite openly because, um, uh, one of the characters actually just basically spells out all of their relationships.

Craig: Victor, he’s staying with me for a bit, got into some trouble at home. He had to get away. I found him sleeping behind the store at the Harbor.

You know, we got talking and now he lives here just like that. You let him use her in. Three rooms. I can’t sleep in the mall and Downey I’ve known him since I was a kid, Sally, his wife. I know her from high school. I dated her for like four days in the eighth grade. So technically she’s

Todd: my ex it’s economical because we don’t really need to know.

The movie is very plot driven. It is, this is not a character driven movie. It’s all about this twisting web of plot. At the beginning, I was very much like, Oh, taking some notes and like looking at okay, can I remember their name and whatever. And then as the movie went on, I realized there’s no way I can keep track of this.

In fact, there was really no way I could keep track of the plot itself. It was so twisted and so convoluted that I feel like this movie requires two or three watchings. If you care enough, to kind of understand how everything connects together, it’s not like primer, you know, it’s not like, hi. Level thinking that requires lots of deep thought, but it’s just such intricate plotting because what we end up with is a story that is a time loop.

It’s one layer of activities kind of layer it on top of each other through time. If you’re really worried the first time you watch this movie, if you’re really worried about decoding it and figuring out exactly what’s going on, because you think you’re going to miss something, I think I would say to you, like, don’t worry.

Like just, just watch the movie, take it in. And by the end of it, you’ll kind of you’ll know what’s going on. And none of the little details are really gonna matter.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. That’s kind of in a nutshell. I mean, they, they they’re, they’re stranded. The boat has capsized it, uh, they, they enter some kind of stuff.

Craig: One of them is out from the storm. Heather is gone. We never see her again. We don’t, we don’t know what happened to her. Presumably she drown. We don’t know.

Todd: Yeah, but that’s a bit of a right though. Where’s Heather. And, uh, so they ended up on the upside down part of this boat, just sitting around and a giant ocean liner kind of comes into view.

Our main character. Jess thinks she sees somebody up on the dock. But it’s not very clear cause the sun’s behind it. And uh, they ended up boarding this ship and it’s deserted, but the lights are on and it’s, you know, it’s a, it’s a floating ship out in the middle of the sea. The ship itself is called the

Craig: ALS and of course, right away, you know, I saw that it was named that and I’m like, that’s gotta be significant.

So, okay. So I paused the movie and then I paused the movie and I’m Googling it. And I find out that, uh, ALS was in. Greek mythology, the divine keeper of the wind. He was the King of a mythical floating islands called Eylea or something like that. And, and his job was to keep the violent storm winds locked inside the caverns of his Island, and he would release them when the gods called for destruction on man.

And I’m like, okay, well, that’s cool. That makes a lot of sense. And then I was mad at myself because they explain all that later.

I did, I didn’t the time to do research because they were going to lay that all out eventually. Anyway.

Todd: Yeah. You dumb ass. What are you thinking?

Craig: Another interesting thing that I didn’t find in my research, but what they said, and it’s true because I double checked it is that also in the mythology, ALS is the father of

Is the guy that had to, you know, constantly push the rock up the Hill and then it would just go down the other side. And he was, you know, faded to just have to do that for eternity, which in the end is actually really cool because it ties into the movie. So well, in fact, this, uh, you know, all of this  I feel like.

The mythology was their jumping off point for the movie, but I didn’t really put it all together until the end, but then when it ended and I was reading about connections and stuff, I’m like, that’s actually really clever. So I, I, I do have to give them props for kind of the cleverness of the concept.

Todd: Well, the director. Of the movie is also the writer. Uh, his name is Christopher Smith. He’s a British guy and, uh, actually he’s written and directed. Most of the movies you’ve done, which is not a lot, uh, before this movie he did to like four other film, little, two shorts and one of their film. And then after that, he did a few more films, some episodes of.

Some television productions. He’s got some stuff right now, uh, in post production as well. Uh, this is the kind of movie that comes from a writer director. I think, you know, it’s, it’s very high concept and clever, and like you said, it, it really takes us mythology as a jumping off point. Point has a lot of touch points in there.

So, you know, it’s, it’s not the kind of movie that you think you write the script and you send out in the market and see how it goes. You sort of have to believe in this film in order to produce it. I think. And so, yeah, I, as a director, yeah. I think he was quite competent, you know, the, the, the, the cinematography in this movie doesn’t call attention to itself.

It’s just good. It’s just, yeah, it’s just fine for what it is. Right. The writing of this movie is. Like I said, it’s, it’s heavily plotted. It’s short on character, but it’s not like these characters are people that are not convincing and everything’s fine. Everything’s fine.

Craig: Well, what I, what the character don’t matter so much, except for we follow Jess so closely.

Like it really is about her. Yeah. On its face. It looks like it’s an ensemble piece because there’s so few actors in it, but really the other characters. Are pretty inconsequential. You really are following Jess through this whole thing. And she is the one on that you are, well, I guess I shouldn’t say you that I was concerned about that I was interested in getting to know, and I thought that the movie also did something really clever in endearing me to her just because.

I, you know, she’s in all this peril, she’s confused. She doesn’t know what’s going on. She’s figuring out things as we’re figuring them out, maybe a little bit slower than us by the end of the movie, you know, just as your girl and, and you’re rooting for her. And then at the end, it pulls the rug out from under you a little bit.

And I thought that. Was really interesting too, but that’s getting way ahead of myself.

Todd: Well, they board them and they wander around and they, uh, you know, somebody says something about the mythology of the character, blah, blah, blah. And they’re just wandering around. And the point of this is that Jess is having this constant deja VU.

Craig: Right.

Todd: I know I’ve been here before. I just feel like I’ve been here before. They’re seeing. Somebody every now and then darting away, like there’s movement down the hallway or something. And then they even find Jess as keys. Like her actual keys are right there on the boat. She finds them. She’s like, these are my keys.

And they’re like, no way. No, no, no. This is like my house key. So my car key is whatever.

Craig: Sure. My kid in it clears me their mind.

Todd: Don’t argue with me on that.

So there’s this. And then, you know, they wander around and they come into a bathroom where if they follow some blood, there’s like a blood trail.

Craig: Well, first they go like to the dining hall. Not only is this ship deserted, it’s not decrepit it, you know, it looks like everybody. Disappeared. Like when they’re in the dining hall, like there’s like a banquet set up like a buffet with, you know, and all the food, food is fresh and looks great.

And then they decide to split off. Victor goes off on his own because just saw somebody like when they were all in the dining hall, she saw somebody, like you said, kind of dart off. You know, around a corner or whatever. So Victor goes off and looks right him and then Jess and Greg go off together, leaving the married couple Downey and Sally in the dining room and Jess and Greg.

Yeah, I think maybe you’re right. Maybe they follow some blood or something, but it leads them to a particular room. Guess what? Room room? Two 37.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And they go in there and, uh, the, the water is running. They can hear the water running in the bathroom. And they go in and the bathroom’s all steamed up and written on the mirror.

Again, a total, another throwback to the shining written on the mirror is go to the theater in blood. And so they go out, I feel like at this point, Jess and Greg kind of have a little argument because she keeps saying there’s something not right. Every corner we turn. I am having deja VU. I know this place and he’s like, no, you’re crazy.

You know, it’s just there. The people on board are just messing with us or something. And, but they have this little, you know, mild disagreement and she goes off and she runs back into the married couple and, and the married couple says something like I thought we were supposed to meet in the theater. And in my mind, I thought, what.

I don’t remember anybody ever saying anything about meeting in the theater, but, uh, apparently, you know, they’re going to, or whatever. And then I don’t know. I feel like, like you said, the plot loops around so much. I feel like I kind of am getting lost of those to go off the Mary to go off. And then Jess, I think runs into to Victor in the dining hall again.

But Victor is all like, Bloodied and acting weird, any attack, sir, and starts, uh, throttling her. And she’s like trying to fight him off. And she reaches around the back of his head and sticks her finger in a hole in the back of his head and this, you know, this whole time, we’re like, we have no idea what’s going on.

Why is he attacking her? Why does he have a hole in his head?

Random. Yeah. And so she gets away from him. She gets away from him. She runs to the theater and in the theater, she finds the married couples, standing over Greg, who is shot and killed Guild. And the married couple accuses her of doing it. And she has no idea what’s going on. And then all of a sudden, somebody starts taking shots at them, kills bowls of the married couple and just runs off on our own.

And now she’s being pursued by this mysterious gunman in like coveralls

Todd: and burlap sack over the head.

Craig: And there’s a chase between them. And like this person is shooting at her and eventually they come face to face and they’re fighting and battling out and battling it out. And this is the moment where I figured it out because they’re fighting.

And this person of course, is, you know, costumes from head to toe. So you can’t see any distinguishing features. You don’t know who it is, but at one point, Jess knocks this person down and I noticed out of the corner of my eyes and I paused it and I, I went back just a few frames and I looked. And I saw they’re wearing the same shoes.

They have the same feet at that point. I knew it’s her. Somehow she’s fighting herself. Eventually she, you know, they fight and, and she gets this mask to silent, like on the, the ledge of the boat and the assailant. You can, it’s muffled so you can barely hear it, but they’re like, you have to kill them. You have to kill me.

That’s the only way to get out of this and just does hit her with something and knocks her over. And, and, and so at that point point, I felt like I knew what was going on and it turns out I’m right. But I don’t really remember how she figures it out. You,

Todd: it takes a little bit of time and this is where, you know, I didn’t take notes during this movie and I kind of wish I had, I think she yells at this point.

And at this point she looks over after she’s knocked this person overboard and she sees them on the overturn boat. Oh, that’s right on the water,

Craig: including herself,

Todd: including herself. Right. And that is who like, so what, when they were out on the water, on the boat, when they looked up at the boat for the first time and thought they saw somebody up on the dock, it’s actually her.

She’s turns away. And at that point, I mean, you know, you figured it out, I don’t know, 30 seconds before, pretty much anybody else would figure it out. So there, this boat is, I guess, stuck in time in some way, she’s on some kind of time loop. And because this person said to that, to her. You’ve got to kill everybody.

It’s the only way to get off the boat. She’s got this idea stuck in her head. And so now, you know, everything has seemed weird about what we just saw has an explanation because in the time loop it’s now her with this realization that she’s in a time loop going through and doing things

Craig: well. And I thought that this was cool because basically what happens is we see this the last 10 minutes of the movie that we just saw.

But now from her new perspective, she is observing what she just experienced, um, from behind the curtain. And, uh, so you know, all, when they thought that they were seeing people darting around corners and stuff, it was her, it was always her. Um,

Todd: And the person who dropped her keys, it was her keys. It just fell out of her pocket while she was darting around the sign.

Yeah, she cornered is Victor, right. Victor comes around him and she started talking to him and she’s trying to tell him that something weird is going on, whatever, and they’re chatting and she, she kind of grabs him and. More or less like, uh, in a, in a way just to emphasize like, look, stop. Like here’s what I’m saying is she, she kind of chucks him against a wall outside on the dock of the boat.

It turns out that she had accidentally thrown him against a, there was like a hook on the wall. It was just a hook that was holding like some life lifesavers or something. And, but. That was what the hole in the back of his head was, is that she had accidentally impaled him on this thing. Then we’re clear, it’s clear what’s going on.

Right. You know, he’s been in paled, she’s running into the ship and she finds it. Here’s the thing, like she starts to find duplicates of everything. Yes. Duplicates it for outfits. This is kind of interesting, actually, it’s, it’s a neat concept that this time loop, like somebody dies, then they die in this one spot.

But because this time loop has happened, I dunno, you know, presumably 12 times before they’re like 12 corpses in this spot where she’s dropped them.

Craig: And so the same person.

Todd: Exactly. And so you’re seeing the fact that this is not only is she replaying what she’s done, but like before this moment that we’re experiencing, now she has replayed through this loop a lot of times with the pretty much the same result, which seems very fatalistic.

Right. And at this point in the movie, you’re kind of watching, at least I was thinking, my God, like, how is this movie gonna end? Because clearly. Every time this loop has happened, it’s pretty much been the same result. Like the same person has died in the same place. How are we going to get out of this?

And, and I think at that moment, you know, I was very intrigued, uh, at the, at the concept of the film, even though I’d figured out, you know, what was going on,

Craig: the kind of the, the paradox with these time travel or time loop movies is. At some point, I started to get frustrated with her because I felt like, you know, what’s going to happen.

well, you’ve already been through this once you were just on the other side of it. So like, if you continue to play it out the way that it played out, the first time, it’s just going to be the same. And there were other times when I thought, Oh, she’s changed it. Cause like, Uh, at one point she ends up in the ballroom and she entered Victor.

From attacking the other, her. And so there are two of them, there are two of her there and he sees that there are two of her there. And at first I was like, you know, if it, if, if she keeps changing things, I thought, okay, maybe she changes things. The outcome will be different. The determination that I came to is that she really wasn’t changing things.

It’s just that she didn’t realize, and it didn’t even occur to me. She finally figures out that the boat comes back every time everybody else is dead, but for whatever reason that doesn’t pertain to her. So every time the boat it comes back, she hasn’t died. Every time, sometimes one of her has, but the way that I understand it is that at any given time there might be three or four of her running around.

Todd: Yeah. She just doesn’t, she just

Craig: doesn’t know where they are or what they’re doing, because she hasn’t been through it yet. That also, you know, it made me start. Questioning, you know, and this is, you know, kind of heady. And I don’t think that the movie really merits that much thought, but this person that we’ve been following from the beginning of the movie, is she even the original Jess or is she just adoptable, ganger?

Uh, and, and that, you know, I think, I think is something that her character struggles with in the movie too. Like there are several instances where she has the opportunity to dispatch. But she’s reluctant to do it because the other, her, you know, begs and says, you know, I have a son and all of these things, and that actually gets her in trouble more than once that she doesn’t just, you know, pull that trigger right away instead of hesitating.

But yeah, I think that these movies can fall into. Traps where things become completely imploded. Yeah. And I thought that this one did a good enough job of making me think. Okay. It kind of makes sense. Yeah, there could be several of her at one point she watches herself, fight herself and kill herself.

Todd: Okay.

Craig: So we know in that moment, there’s at least three of them and who knows how many others there are skulking around, but it is, you know, that whole middle. 45 minutes or, or whatever is her just kind of coming upon these things. Like she finds a whole pile of notes that says you have to killed them all.

Or if they bored, kill them all. And she grabs a piece of paper and writes it herself and compares to the handwriting and realize that it’s her handwriting, but there are literally doesn’t, it’s like, there’s a pile of these notes. Like this, this happened over and over again. Um, at another point she like.

Falls down or no, she looks down and she sees her necklace hanging in a great, and as she’s bending over to pick it up, the necklace that she’s wearing gets caught in the grate and breaks off her neck and falls down into the great. And she looks down in there and there’s a whole pile of, um, so like this has obviously happened many, many times the most jarring.

Episode or example of that is the one that you already referred to where she, one of her, not the one that we’re following, but one of her has stabbed. Um, Sally, eh, and Sally is running away from the Jess that we know, even though she’s trying to say it wasn’t really me, it wasn’t only me. And she ends up on a deck that apparently nobody else ever goes to because there are literally dozens of dead Sally’s up there.

And I thought that that was. Really cool. Yeah, it was

Todd: cool. And you know, this movie can, I mean, I think if, if it’s not well written enough, it just becomes this exercise and what the hell is going on. And I’m just going to have to wait and see, and you kind of give up and you lose yourself just in the plot.

And maybe I’m just not a smart guy, but you know, I just, I just didn’t give myself any credit for being able to figure out. All the convolutions as the swing was going on. So I, at one point I just kind of was like, yeah, I don’t think I’m gonna, I don’t think I’m gonna be able to figure this out, you know?

Uh, but the writer does a very good job of inserting a, just the right moment, a little bit of intrigue, because as she fricking stabs, I don’t know. I think it was Sally brutally to death. And at this moment I was thinking she’s loving this. Like she’s going after these people with this. This Gusto that like, what, in this, what, in any of these timelines, it has happened to her.

What new information did she get that made her such a ruthless killer of these people? And she says, I’m sorry to do this, but I just love my son too much. And I’m like, Whoa, wait a second. Like, wait. Okay. So there’s clearly some connection between what’s going on. And her autistic son, but now you’re wondering, because her son’s not been present in any of this before, what connection could possibly her autistic son have to do with what’s going on in this ship and making her a ruthless killer.

And so once again, even though all this kind of nonsense is happening and I’m just kind of starting to turn my brain off, because I don’t feel like I have any hope of. Unraveling this plotted heavily plotted time loop. I’m suddenly intrigued again. What is it about this that that’s driving her that has to do with her son?

And so at that point, it’s like kind of snapped my brain to attention again. And I thought that was a very clever moment of probably about midway through the film.

Craig: Well, I thought it was, I thought it was clever too, because we keep seeing these alternate versions of her and all of them. Like you said are very violent and brutal and aggressive.

And it seems very out of character for her, but I thought that the movie did a good job of, and I suppose I should give credit to Melissa George too, because. As we follow her throughout the course of the movie, she becomes that the more desperate she gets, the more comfortable she becomes with doing what she feels like she has to do.

Uh, her plan is she, she realizes eventually that once all of her peers are dead, that’s when the boat reappears. And so, um, she figures out that one of her old cells was trying to tell her if you kill them, all the boat will come back. And if the boat comes back, you can get on the boat and then scape this, the sailboat, the capsize sailboat.

Right. And so that’s ultimately what she’s trying to do. I mean, there there’s one point early on when she realizes it. That that’s what’s happening and the last person and dies and she runs up and she’s, uh, sees the boats there at, you know, again, everybody. Comes aboard the liner and she’s looking at, um, the capsized sailboat, and I’m like shouting at my screen, like jump, like,

Todd: what do you

Craig: really want to have to go through?

Killing them all again, like

Todd: just

Craig: freaking joke. Um, but I guess you probably shouldn’t jump off the top deck of an ocean liner. I don’t know.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But that, I mean, that’s, that’s kind of it, right. I

Todd: mean, yeah. We’re, we’re done talking about the main plot of the movie because the rest of it’s sort of the end,

Craig: right.

I mean, everything starts coming together. Like we, we realized that the reason. Earlier on the married couple had said, I thought you said we were supposed to go to the theater. Well, we had never heard that before, but unbeknownst to us, one of the other justices had told them that. Um, and so now our Jess tells them that to get them in place so that, you know, she can dispatch them.

You know, these little things just, uh, come together.

Todd: Finally, we’re following the jest that has the bag over her head. Right. That’s trying to shoot the Jess that’s out on the deck. That’s fighting herself. Right. And so we’re, we’re on her side of the perspective now. Uh, and the Jess fights successfully fencer off as we saw before and tosses her over the edge and she falls into the water with the bag on her head.

Craig: I do have to say though, that that was the most frustrating part of the movie, because I even wrote down in my notes, you know, what’s going on?

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: She’s already had this fight before. She’s just on the other side of it. She like don’t do.

Todd: The same thing,

Craig: the person that you were right. Don’t do the same thing, but whatever she does and for plot purposes, I guess she has to.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at some point we need to kind of see where this looping kind of ends up and this character falls over the side. This version of her falls over the side, into the water. And then the screen sort of fades out and comes back into an image we’ve seen before. And that’s of her laying on the beach there, ISO looking toward the waves and the waves are coming in and there’s her clothes or something, I guess, per previous costume, uh, coming at her in the waves.

Well, now we know exactly what that is and she gets up and she’s kinda dazed and she stumbles around and stumbled forward. Well, we had seen this earlier on in the film. And, uh, she goes to her house except doesn’t go inside and kind of looks at it through the window and sees her autistic son they’re painting or doing whatever at his desk, inside the bedroom, and then sees herself having this huge fight with him.

You know, she’s mad at him. He did something, he spills some stuff for whatever. She gets just overly angry at it, frustrated. Uh, and this white do going down to wipe it up. And, uh, the doorbell rings, which is her. Right. So this version of justice we’re now following is the one who rang the doorbell ran away.

He had in the, in the shed. So now we’re looping around very much to the beach, to the beginning of the movie. And you’re like, Oh, okay. This is how it’s all coming in together. But still in the back of my mind, I’m thinking, okay, now I need the answer. Like, how does. How does everything that we’ve seen before?

How is it going to possibly save her autistic son?

Craig: This is, yeah, but this is the part that I was saying I thought was so clever because it kind of pulled the rug out from under me because the whole movie she’s been so motivated by wanting to get back to her son. I mean, she is just been adamant about it and like, she gets pissy with other characters.

Um, if, if. They question her motivation, you know, it’s always like, I love my son. I’m doing this for my son. Um, so you’re thinking, Oh my God, this poor mother, all she wants to do is make sure that her poor autistic son is okay. And then not only. Does she get back and she witnesses herself. And in my mind, I thought, Oh my gosh, it’s not just happening on the boat.

I hadn’t even considered that. I thought, you know, it’s the boat thing, but it’s not just the boat thing. It’s her. When I say the rug was pulled out from under me, she’s a terrible mother. Oh, horrible.

Todd: Yeah, it’s just,

Craig: she’s awful. Uh, she says awful things to him. She, she yells at him, berates him for, you know, simple mistakes that any child, not even mistakes, the re he spilled some paint.

The reason that he, he spills paint is because he sees it, his mother. And then he turns around over his shoulder and sees. His mother also outside the window, which startles them. And he spills the paint and she yells and screams at him and says something like, you know, why can’t you be a normal kid?

You’re just like your dad. He was an asshole too. Like, she’s awesome. Oh, it’s true. Yeah. And so it really took me aback because I’d been rooting for this character. Now you realize she’s awful, but it’s kind of like her own apifany. As well, she realizes that she’s awful. So she kills herself

Todd: the end. Thank you for listening. There’s a problem with this movie really. I mean, there’s ultimately a problem with this movie is where does the cycle start? Where’s the point in which. The story she’s allowed to step outside of herself and become a second entity and start looping around. Right. And I think that’s just a thing that we just have to accept to be able to bring some closure to the concept, but her character in the film ends up getting in the car with her son and driving down the road.

Craig: Again, this was all very clever because she, she killed. Okay. When I say she kills herself, I mean that she. The jest that we’ve been following murders, her mean self. That was just me, sun and piles are in the car. And so we realized that everything that we saw in the beginning of the movie was this already in action.

This was already happening. When she was comforting, her kid, the reason she was comforting, her kid and saying bad dreams make you see bad things is because he had just witnessed. Her killing her doppelganger. And so she’s trying to comfort him for that.

Todd: That was a cool moment because I thought, Oh, you want, you had your redemption, you killed this horrible version of yourself.

Now you’ve kind of come around. You’ve seen it from the outside. And you’ve been given this chance and you escaped your loop. And, uh, you know, all this is great, but of course we know that happened at the beginning of the movie. Right. So it can’t really be the end. And she gets in the car with him and they drive.

And, uh, he distracts her. She’s distracted. I can’t remember exactly what happened there. Uh,

Craig: uh, a seagull hits the, um, Oh God, there’s been seagull imagery throughout a seagull, hits the windshield and blood splatters all over. And so her son in the backseat is freaking out and she’s trying to calm him, but in doing so, she is looking over her shoulder, back at him and she veers, uh, over the median, um, and hits a semi.

Todd: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Craig: no. You’re right. You’re right. You’re right.

Todd: She stops. She stops. And she exits the car to go get the dead seagull. And she walks to the, to the edge of the road and tosses the seagull over the edge of the road, onto the ground by the, by the Bay and looks down and you see again, there are like a dozen or more.

dead seagulls there. So suddenly you’re like, Oh my God, like, this is part of the time. Look, this has happened before. Yeah. So she hasn’t escaped anything. Like she’s still in this, something’s going to happen. And like you said, she comes back. She starts driving down the road again, she gets distracted, veers the car off into a semi the car completely flips over.

And, uh, she. Then she’s dead, she’s dead or son’s dead. And now, now the camera pans over and there, she also is standing in the middle of the road, witnessing this, seeing herself and her son, dad. Uh, and there’s a guy who walks up behind her and says, Hey, are you okay? And she’s like, uh, you know, whatever, who are you?

And he says, I’m just a driver. Do you need a ride? And she says, yes. So this is supposed to be,

Craig: he also says, well, when you say, you know, there’s the crash and then she’s dead. And the son’s dead. It’s a little bit ambiguous, but the way that I understood it, because she had packed the doppelgangers corpse in the car.

And so I, I think that the, her that’s dead on the road is the, her that she had already killed and putting the trunk and. I think so, but it’s a little ambiguous. I was reading about it online. It’s a little bit ambiguous. Um, and yeah, so she, the driver is, is somehow has survived in a standing there and that the, the mysterious driver comes up to her.

And the thing that he says to her is no sense in trying to save the kid. There’s not anybody, there’s not anything that anybody. Could do to bring him back and you see this moment. Realization on her face and he says, can I take you somewhere? And she says, yeah, take me to the Marina. And she drives them back to the Marina, or he drives her back to the Marina and she sleeps on the way there.

And then when she gets there, he says all, keep the meter running, you’ll come back. Right. And she says, yeah, I promise. And then we see this, uh, it. The opening or the earlier scene of the movie plays out again. But again now from her perspective. Yeah. So instead of us seeing all the people on the boat, we see her approaching the boat.

And when she comes up to Greg and his acting all weird and he says, are you okay? And she says, I’m sorry. We know that now what she’s apologizing for, because she is putting this. Back into motion, which means she’s going to have to kill them all again. Um, if she wants another chance at this. Uh, which I thought was really clever.

Now, I, I was reading on line that, um, the driver is symbolically the it’s the logical ferryman who delivers lost souls to purgatory. Yes. And SIS Sufis, who was the son of that God ALS, which is the name of the boat. The reason that he was doomed to keep rolling that, uh, Boulder over the Hill over and over again was because he had lied.

To death or something like that. Um, he had, or he had broken a promise just like Jess breaks the promise with the cab driver, which then puts her in this purgatory of doing the same thing over and over and over again. And I think that the suggestion is that this is like her purgatory. She’s just doomed to continue repeating these.

Events over and over and over again. And maybe she deserves it because apparently she was a pretty terrible person.

Todd: Right. I think I love a clever. Film like this. I mean, I think if we really talked about this longer, we could start to poke holes. We could talk about time paradoxes and we could talk about like, at what point, you know, the first time all this happened, right.

There was no doppelganger in the trunk. There was no, you know, I mean, like. Uh, yes,

Craig: there was no, no, no. I mean,

Todd: very, very, very first time in life that this could have happened to her. She didn’t have a doppelganger. Right. So, yeah. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s, uh, you can, you can poke holes in this, but who, who wants to do that?

It’s just a clever plot. It’s a fun kind of movie. You get the idea. Smart. And it kind of leaves you with this, ah, kind of feeling at the end, like these kinds of movies tend to do so I don’t want to examine it too deeply for those kinds of things. I thought it was smart.

Craig: I thought it was smart too. The one thing that kind of bothers me and I’d kinda like to go back and watch the first half hour again, because the suggestion is that from our timeline, from when we started watching the movie.

The jest that we have been watching knows what’s going to happen. Right. And I don’t know, I w I want to go back and see the performance again and see if beyond her just acting kind of funny on the doc, if there’s anything else to see just that all along, she knows what’s going to happen. That’s true, because that, doesn’t it, because that doesn’t really make sense, unless she’s just a really good actor.

Pretending to be surprised. Oh, I’m having this deja VU like, Oh my gosh, are my keys, like in theory, She should know all of that. You know what I mean? Like nothing should be a surprise to her.

Todd: And there are things that actually play out differently the second or third time around. Right. I mean, like literally new things happen in the theater.

Things happen slightly differently, you know, the second or third time we see it. So it’s not really this case of where the first time you watched this, this plot, you know, go through, you’re seeing. All of the iterations, you know, combined together of what could possibly end has happened before. Yeah.

You’ve got to kind of allow for, like you said, you’ve got to kind of allow for the fact that that may be, there was a first time and a second time and a third time they can all be different and not necessarily reflected in one reality. Which is a problematic, right? I mean, it’s problematic to the whole concept, really, when you, when you think about it, you know, you’ve got to, what’s the role, like you only get to see the first, the, the previous iteration play out in front of you, you know?

Right. Yeah. But I mean, if this person is truly doomed to loop the same thing over and over again, but she has a free will. She’s not necessarily gonna make the same decisions over and over and over again. And. Right. It gives a really clever way for that. It had to happen and the movie can’t do that. You know, it just, it’s not possible.

So we’ve got to kind of accept the fact that maybe we’re just we’re viewing some, you know, an incomplete. A version of it every time, you know, or it’s just, you know, that things kind of loop twice and then that double loop just kind of happens. Infinitum ad infinitum, you know, I don’t know. It’s hard to talk about

Craig: or yeah.

I mean, that’s it like, I think if we were really talking about the. The logistics of time loops in theory, it would have to be exactly the same every time, or I don’t know. There would have to be, it always has to end up the same one way or another of it’s going to continue to loop. Um, but that’s, that’s putting too much thought into it.

It it’s it’s it’s I liked this. I was entertained. I was really, uh, Curious to see how things were going to play out. I was surprised throughout, you know, even though, even once you figure out what what’s going on, um, I thought that. Whether it was the writing or, or just the, the timing of things, um, you know, finding those piles of things.

Uh, and especially that pile of dead Sally’s right. Even though I knew what was going on, even though I knew it was a loop, even though I knew it, it happened over and over again, that visual representation of it, of Sally dragging her dying body through a pile. Of January, like, like that it was cool. And, uh, it really kept my interest.

I did, you know, it’s not a long movie. It’s only an hour and a half, I think. Um, but it’s so plot heavy, uh, that it may be felt a little bit longer, but not in a bad way for me. I never felt like it was slow. I was never bored. I didn’t think it was dragging. I was, I was constantly. Just thinking, you know, what’s going on, what’s going to happen next?

How is she going to get out of this? Um, I liked it. I would recommend this movie even to people who aren’t huge horror fans. I think that if you’re a fan of just interesting twisty storytelling, I think this has kind of a broad appeal in that.

Todd: Yeah. You know, that didn’t have to happen. I mean, you can tell a story like this and not have the pile of bodies there, you know, I mean, right.

Actually, it kind of doesn’t make a lot of sense really that there would be piles of bodies there if it’s kind of a time loop. I mean, it’s not like we’re seeing in the same scene 10, Sally’s attacking 10 Sally’s when they’re alive, that in and of itself is a cool concept, but it actually doesn’t quite.

Make a lot of logical sense. Right.

Craig: But it does in the world of the movie because there can’t be doubles. There can’t be doubles of the other people because they all have to die before they come back. Just doesn’t have to die. There can be multiple iterations of her because the return of the sailboat isn’t contingent upon her dying.

It’s only contingent upon the rest of them dying. So there would never be, there would never be more than one of any of the rest of them only. Jess. Or at least alive, their bodies would be there. Right. Which kind of, if you haven’t seen the movie, it kind of begs the question. Well, why is it, why aren’t they finding their bodies all over the place?

It’s because Jess just disposes of all of them, except for Sally’s because apparently Sally’s is up on some deck that nobody ever goes,

Todd: Oh, that’s a good point. Oh yeah. Because I’m like, well, why aren’t there a bunch of bodies in the theater? You know, why aren’t the whatever, but yeah, I guess you’re right.

She does. Take care of those, I guess. Right. So yeah. Good point. Good point. Well, I agree with you. I thought it was a nice movie. I enjoyed it. It kept me guessing. And just to the point where I was about to kind of give up, trying to make sense of it and I thought, okay, whatever, you know, it had dropped in the little bit of intrigue that made me, that had me looking toward the end.

You know, thinking, well, what could possibly be the end result of this? How could these things connect? And it was depressing. It was very depressing, you know? I mean, it doesn’t end well for her. It doesn’t

Craig: end well, it’s bleak.

Todd: It’s super bleak. And her poor autistic son who she was a total Dick towards is dead.

And there’s nothing, you know, that could be done about it. It’s just like a good horror movie should be super bleak and depressing.

Okay. All right. Well, thank you again for listening. We apologize if this is not exactly the movie that was requested, we’ll probably get to that later. We will dive into the triangle at some point later, but if you enjoyed this podcast, Please share it with a friend. If you enjoyed this movie, let us know what you thought of it.

And our interpretation of it by just Googling two guys in a chainsaw, we have a Facebook page. We have a website, two guys that read 40 net.com. We also have a YouTube channel. You can go to leave us a comment, any one of those places, as well as give us a request for any film that you particularly enjoy, that you would like us to review until next time I’m Todd.

And I’m Craig, with two guys in a chainsaw.


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