The Fury (1977)

Episode 208, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: I’m Craig.

Todd: Some of our longtime listeners will understand that whenever a famous person dies, we feel sad and then we go to the internet and see what horror movies have they been in, right? So that we can do our own special tribute to them.

And last month, Kirk Douglas died. Kirk Douglas was 103 years old when he died. So I’d say he’s lived a pretty long and rich life. Very well known, very successful actor, has spawned, literally spawned other well-known and successful actors. So here we are today, doing the only horror movie really that I could find that he’s done: The Fury by Brian de Palma, and kind of a nice little follow up in 1977 from Carrie.

Which was well received, but not quite as big blockbuster powerhouse moneymaker that he expected it to be. So he immediately did a follow up. Kind of along the same themes. Is there, Carrie, we’re still dealing with telekinesis and these kinds of psychic powers, but it is a bit more of, um, I dunno, a thriller.

Globe tried and kind of adventure takes us out of a high school and way out into the wider world with all of these other factions in play. So I think he’s just trying to make a slightly bigger movie that’s going to have a wide appeal, which is why I think it categorizes as a horror film. Um, but if you go to IMDB or if you go to Wikipedia, they call it a science fiction horror thriller film.

And I think that’s probably a little more accurate. Maybe. Maybe a little closer to the thriller side there horror elements here. There are some Sci-Fi elements because we’re dealing with these psychic powers instead of supernatural. Powers, I guess. But at the end of the day, this was the movie we have and we’re going to have a lot to talk about, I think.

So. How about you, Craig? Uh, what did you think of this movie? Had you seen it before?

Craig: No, I had never seen it before. I had heard of it a little bit before my time. It came out a year or two before I was born, and so I probably just missed it for that reason. I am a big fan of DePalma’s Carrie, and there are certainly elements of that here.

Uh, you, like you said, you know, Carrie was. Successful for the lower budget film that it was, but DePalma felt like it just didn’t have the star power that it needed. I mean, sissy Spacek went on to be a household name and very famous in her own right. But at that time was, she wasn’t a name. And Kirk Douglas is a huge name and had been for decades.

He started out in the theater, had a successful career in the theater. Uh, and then went off to serve in world war II. And I don’t remember if his acting career in film started just just before that or really kind of picked up after he came back. He hadn’t really planned on making the jump to film, but a friend of his.

Famous actress convinced him and hooked him up with an audition and he got a role and that launched, you know, just a huge film career, incredibly famous. And like you said, you know, he’s the father of Kirk Douglas, who is also a huge movie star. Michael’s son. Cameron is into films, uh, now, after struggling with some legal issues.

But yeah, I mean, he’s this guy, he’s a Hollywood legend. This movie, you know, is a little bit out of his wheelhouse. And what was funny to me is I feel like they’re kind of in this movie, they’re presenting him as almost like an action hero. Yeah. And even, even at this point, I mean, he’s, he’s a good looking man.

Um, but he was 61 when this was filmed, and, and he’s starting to show his age. You know, I, I firmly believe that he is in the physical condition in this movie to do the things that he portrays. Um, but he is getting older at this point. But like you said, he lived to be 103, I guess that that was not atypical in his family.

His family, I guess, uh, had a history of living long lives. And so he was no exception. And, uh, just recently passed away. And of course, you know, his surviving children, I don’t know how many of them. Boys are left. I know that suicide has also been a constant in their family, as has been addiction. So I know that he’s lost a, at least one, if not a couple of his sons to that, but his surviving family was sad, but you know, of course they were able, uh, to pay tribute to his long.

And illustrious life and career. So that’s nice. So we just wanted to do this just to kind of pay tribute to somebody who really earned his position in Hollywood. I have a lot of respect for this guy. I, you know, I can’t say that I’m a huge fan. It’s not like I’ve seen tons of Kirk Douglas films, but you just have to respect somebody who’s had that kind of longevity.

And, uh, this, this movie. I think it’s alright. Even Brian DePalma says that it’s not one of his favorite movies that he’s made. I think that he had a lot of ambition and it is an ambitious movie. There’s quite a lot going on. I personally found it a little bit slow, but I’m also, I, I have no attention span, so that could just

Todd: be me.

Were you watching this on your computer as well while you were at work? The second half,

you know, um, Craig and I, uh, talk actually outside of this podcast, believe it or not. And uh, he had mentioned to me when he was in the middle of watching this, that he was going to finish it soon and warned me a little bit that the movie was going to be slow. So going into it, I had that. That thought that maybe it was going to be a slow film.

And I intentionally watched it at a time when I wasn’t terribly tired because I also have very little patience for slow movies. I do have to echo your sentiment though about the film. I do also think it runs a little slow. It’s odd because I’m a big fan of Roger Ebert and, um, I went and I just. Couldn’t help.

I try not to read too many reviews before we do this because I don’t want them to really color my own personal thoughts. But occasionally I want to hear what Roger Ebert has to say about it. And in his review, which was three out of four stars, he called it fast paced. I think maybe for the time. Yeah.

Maybe for the time this would have been considered a. Somewhat fast paced movie, although there were other critics and people at the time also complaining that it was a little slow. I think most of the complaints about this movie centered around just how the plot doesn’t make a lot of sense, or it just has got a lot of holes in it or it’s a little hard to comprehend, and I would share that sentiment for sure.

Craig: That’s something else that I said to you too. I said, you know, I’ve got a half an hour left and I’m not really sure where the plot is going. Like I. I just didn’t know. I couldn’t figure out what the end game was supposed to be. And ultimately when it did get to the end, I was kind of like, that’s it.

Todd: It’s over awfully quickly

Craig: if right.

We sat through this whole thing just to get to that, like, I don’t know, it was kind of disappointing to me. I don’t want to go into it, you know, cause it’s not a bad movie. I don’t think it’s. Bad at all. I think it’s, it’s competently made. Uh, the performances are fine and it’s not like things don’t happen.

Things do happen. There are big action pieces and there are interesting characters. Um, so I don’t want to start it out as though I think it’s a bad movie because I don’t, I, I just found it a little bit confusing. And a little bit slow, but those are my biggest complaints. Really.

Todd: Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. Me too.

I would say that the movie aspires to, like I said earlier, it kind of aspires to be pretty big and globe trotting. I thought it was really funny, the, the opening scene, the title card comes up and just says. Middle East, like like middle East as a country there, right? It doesn’t matter apparently to the directors or maybe to the audience.

It’s it. We’re just going to have a desert area. They’re going to be terrorists involved, you know, it’s the middle East. Right, right. But, um, Kirk Douglas that comes out of the swimming out of the water with a kid and it turns out that this is his son. And I say, kid, he’s, he’s an adult. He’s an adult kid.

Probably. Is he supposed to be 19 2021 maybe?

Craig: Yeah, that’s what I’m guessing. Like maybe just out of high school would be my guest.

Todd: His name is Robin

Craig: and Kirk Douglas’s character’s name is Peter. And there’s this scene where they’re there, you know. They race, like they’re competitive, but it’s all in good fun.

They race in the water and then they’re just kind of like wrestling around, you know, very macho kind of stuff and very much, but, but then they sit down at like a, like a bistro table, like on the beach. They’re talking and Robin is, they’re going to be moving to Chicago and Robin’s worried about it for some reason, and you just get this suggestion that they’re moving to Chicago for Robyn, and he’s going to be going to this Institute and he’s nervous about it.

I just won’t fit in there

Todd: like some kind of freak.

Craig: What is this or may find out what was wrong with this? Nothing wrong with you.

Todd: I till Cain, a zoo. Now what the hell are you doing?

Craig: Feeling sorry for yourself, okay. You have a talent that was shocked. The hell out of people. What is a talent that else can be put to good?

Use nothing to be ashamed of. Not sugar’s understands this. That’s why he wants you to go to this school in Chicago and meet other kids that

Todd: are

Craig: special. Like you. And we find out of course, later that, uh, it’s psychic kind of, it’s, it’s more about telekinesis and they call it bio magnetic energy or something like that.

And then there’s also another guy there named Childress, played by

Todd: John Cassavetes.

Craig: Yeah. John Cassavetes from . Lots of things, but I always remember him as the husband from Rosemary’s baby, and you can tell right away that he shady or something going on with this guy and out of the blue. There’s this huge terrorist attack and it’s a, it’s a huge like action sequence with machine guns and explosions and boats, and right away I was like, Oh, okay.

Todd: Yeah, it’s going to be that kind

Craig: of movie.

Todd: It happens. Uh, after the boy Robin walks away from the table along with Childress and Kirk Douglas is still sitting there kind of finishing his wine. And it seems like they’re targeting him. It becomes kind of obvious that they’re targeting him at the table. And so a children’s is pulling away Rob, and he’s not letting him go back to help Kirk Douglas as everything’s kind of under siege.

I keeps calling Peter. Peter is his name, and he goes into this big sequence where he runs and he manages to get away on a, on a little . Boat and tear off across the water. But then the terrorists shoot the boat and the boat explodes. Robin’s really upset cause dad’s dead gets pulled away. But of course we see dads sneak out of the water and when he looks up, he can see on the wall that Childress is there.

Talking to one of the guys who was shooting at him. So he immediately realizes he’s been betrayed. He finds a gun from one of the guy’s corpses on the beach and shoots up at Childress and children’s says, arm gets injured. Uh, and then he runs away. I don’t even know if we get a title card, years have passed or anything like that, but now where

Craig: a year a year has gone by, it’s 19 we started in 1977 now it’s 1978 in Chicago.

Todd: Chicago, right. Present day. Uh, and, and we’re going to Chicago. We know is where Robin was going to go. I had initially had the impression he was going to a school, but you know, it’s, it’s like you said, it’s an Institute and we’re at a school and there’s a woman walking along with her friend, uh, and the woman’s name is Ghillean.

She’s played by Amy Irving. Amy Irving is. Has these phenomenal eyes, this movie, by the way, it’s so seventies like I don’t think any of the women here are wearing bras. The look at the time was very much like super skinny and so is Amy Irving. She’s super skinny in this movie. She’s very attractive.

Craig: Yes, she is.

She had been in Carrie too. She played Sue Snell. And Carrie, so she and DePalma had worked together before and they’re not at a school yet. Like there, we jumped from one beach to another, like they must be on the beach at Lake Michigan or something.

Todd: You’re right there outside the, well,

Craig: yeah, you’re right.

You’re right. And they’re in bathing suits and they’re just walking around and they’re talking and like they’re studying for. Exams or something. I don’t know. Her and a friend, some weird guy starts following them and they notice, and so then he backs off and we see him call somebody on the phone and he says, I found one.

It’s a girl. She’s a psychic. She can help you and we can hear that. It’s Peter on the other end of. The line, but we also see that this guy, this weird guy, is being watched. Like there’s surveillance cameras everywhere. There are, you know, guys in suits, you know, watching, you know, when it jumped to those girls.

This is one of the things. That I kind of take issue with this movie a little bit. It for the longest time, it kind of feels like it’s two separate movies. There’s the Peter looking for Robin story, which is what’s going on. He’s trying to track down his son, and then there’s this Gillian’s story, which is almost like a coming of age story where she’s discovering that she has.

The psychic powers, and you know that the stories are going to intersect at some point that it takes forever

Todd: till pretty much the end of the movie. That’s the problem. And it’s interesting, but I think we’ve already seen Carrie at this point.  and so this part with Ghillean. I thought it was kind of slow.

I don’t know. And that’s unfair, you know, I think you should always sorta take stories as they come at you and take them at face value. You’re supposed to, as an audience, and this is an interesting thing of maybe about commercial film and about art in general, is, you know, people always make movies with this idea that you’re coming in clean, right?

Like you could hit the reset button on the audience. They come in and they see this fresh story, and I think. As a film maker, your feeling is, all right, we’re going to tell this story from the beginning to a blank slate. And actually audiences come to movies knowing the actors, having seen trailers, seeing stuff about it beforehand.

Maybe they came to this movie because they were interested in seeing what else Brian DePalma is gonna throw at them. And so, you know, for this reason, lots of times directors like to shake it up a little bit. There’s the one side of Hollywood where we give them more of the same, but we put new twists on it.

And then there’s this other side of this auto tour side, which was really big. You know, especially in the 70s before we got into the big blockbuster hits and a guy like. DePalma is very much an odd tour where they always want to surprise the audience. They don’t want to be pigeonholed and boxed in. So on the one hand, I think it’s kind of surprising that a guy like DePalma would go in and in a way tell his Kerry story again, in another sense, I feel like, uh, and it’s not really a Carrie story.

I mean, she’s not, the setting is different and things are different, but it’s still this girl coming to terms with her psychic powers.

Craig: Right. And it seems like, you know, today. This would probably be called a spiritual sequel. Yeah. You know, most of the people who were going to see this movie in the theaters probably had seen Carrie.

Todd: That’s what I’m saying. Right?

Craig: Yeah. And we’re familiar with the whole telekinesis thing, and so. They don’t have to take as much time to establish that, and it is different in that in a carry, that poor girl was alone. You know? She was on her own for so many reasons and then being different in that she had these telekinetic powers just further isolated her.

Yeah. This movie is different in that this phenomenon is known about. And there are professionals in the field and there’s this Institute where people can go and so it’s bigger. It’s just, it’s, it’s grander in scope. I don’t know. I mean, I think it works fine and you could, you could. Easily watch this without having seen Carrie and have no problem following what’s going on.

It’s just almost as though this whole telekinesis thing just doesn’t seem like as big a deal. It’s a big deal that the certain people are special and there are. People out there who want to find them and utilize them for their own purposes, but it’s not as big a deal in that, Oh my gosh, what is happening now that, you know, they, they get it, you know?

Todd: Um, yeah. Everyone’s cool with it in a way, or they’re, they’re open to it.

Craig: Right. Right.

Todd: Well, and, and another problem that she seems to have is that she can’t control it so well. Uh, and that sometimes when people touch her, she sees visions of them. And this is explained, I think, by a, a person, uh, there’s, there’s a kind of, this Institute visits their school, it’s the Paragon Institute, and it visits their school and into one of their classes.

And they have this elaborate setup. Way too elaborate really, but okay. It’s a movie, right? That they’re using to demonstrate brainwave activity, and they have a girl attached to an electrode attached to a train. That’s this giant train on this big table that’s going around in the circle, and the woman explains.

That, uh, the, the woman’s brainwaves are controlling the train. So the stronger her brainwaves, the faster she can make this train go. It’s not just that you could make things move or whatever, but there’s also the imprint of all of history. Floating around us in this psychic magnetic field so that people can even get visions of the past and maybe of the future, because who are able to tap into this energy field that everything runs behind this imprint.

And this is pretty typical stuff too. I think it’s really funny. During the sequence. Then of course you know what’s going to happen and indeed it does happen. Who else wants to volunteer and get hooked up to this thing? And sure enough, the woman zeroes in Angelique, Hey, why don’t you try? Okay. She clicks it on and immediately the train starts going fast and faster and faster and faster.

And I was wondering, is this a class about psychic phenomena or is this just something that the Paragon Institute brought in.

Craig: I have no idea. I, you know, I couldn’t figure out why they were there either. Um, maybe it’s a psychology class or something. I, I have no idea. But yeah. No. So the, the train goes so fast that it crashes or derails or something, but she also has a vision of a bloody face, which frightens her.

And then we cut away. You know, we’re, we’re constantly cutting back and forth between these two stories. We actually skipped, there was a whole other big action scene where, uh, this suits, you know, whoever they are, find Peter in this rundown hotel. He sees them coming. So he goes out the window in his underwear and like parkours across the street.

Uh, and ends up in this, you know, these other people’s apartment. Then there is, you know, this whole scene where the two primary residence, it’s this middle aged couple and they’re, they’re set up to be goofy. You know, he has them tied up and their elderly mother is like pampering him and giving him cookies and stuff.

Might as well just leave him there. They ain’t got anything to say. I want a union. I’ve heard it all before. Peter, that’s your real name. Your reason why you’d make up lies to tell me how don’t matter. Anyhow,

and there’s a sense get in your way. Just shooting them. That’s all they deserved. And it was played very much for comedy, like, yeah, I was very surprised by how comedic it went in this moment because it never really takes that tone again, but it was kind of cute and funny. I mean, I enjoyed it,

Todd: but you’re right, it’s so out of place in this movie.

It like suddenly. Uh, we’re in this hilarious little domestic scene. She’s made him breakfast and she’s chatting with him a mile a minute cause he’ll actually respond to her.

Craig: Well, yeah. And he just skies himself in this ridiculous disguise. Or like he uses white shoe Polish to whiten his hair and he puts on glasses and he shoves like a couch cushion under his shirt.

Um. And, and doesn’t even conceal it. Well, like it’s sticking out. Like it’s, it’s the silliest disguise. Um, and it doesn’t even work. And this Institute must be really well funded because they have surveillance. Everywhere. Just dozens of guys in suits and sunglasses, like positioned on streets and in buildings.

So everywhere Peter goes, he’s surrounded by like 15 people watching him. It’s kinda crazy. And then there’s a big car chase. Uh, he, he like. Commandeers a police car with the police in it.

Todd: And now this is also kind of comedic to these two guys. Again, they’re kind of playing this for laughs too. Not, not the outright comedy that the other one is, but they’re trying to get something going between these two guys.

It’s cute and it’s a little funny, but. It’s also a little silly. Yeah. You know, I don’t know. There’s a little bit of hammy acting going on here between these two guys. But anyway, you know, there’s this long, long action scene where there’s this chase in the car, and I honestly didn’t even understand the scene too well because at one point, and they’re going through Chicago, and this is clearly filmed on the streets of Chicago.

So it’s a cool set piece because they’re going under the owl, and. And in these titles and things that Chicago is kind of known for, and then it’s because it’s night, they’re driving basically through, I think it was supposed to be into a construction site or some kind of  or something, and it’s too foggy.

This really, you know, fast paced action scene kind of Peters out. Into nothing because the car magically drives into this fog and disappears. The others come in one by one and can’t see anything and stop, and then the cars there, ha ha. And it’s almost like they’re taunting these guys and he’s got this little plan,

Craig: like one of them, somehow he tricks one car of bad guys into shooting up the other car of bad guys somehow the year.

Right. It kind of doesn’t make . Since you know, it seems like the good guy car can just kind of appear and disappear whenever it wants to. And so the bad guy cars, you know, are always. Taken off guard and he eventually dispatches all of the bad guys that are following them. And then for reasons that I don’t understand.

Okay, so this, uh, the car that he took with the cops in it, it’s not a marked police car. In fact, it’s just one of the cops personal cars. And like that’s part of the joke. He’s like, Oh, I just bought it an hour ago. Please be careful. And so then at the end. For reasons that I don’t understand. He just tells those guys.

He lets the cops out of the car and he. Tells them, see children, ask him who was worth his arm, what happened to his arm. I killed it with a machine gun, a Peter and I wait, tell the chill risk to follow me. And then he drives it into either Lake Michigan or the river. I don’t know why that was mean.

Meanwhile,

Todd: yeah,

Craig: back back at Gilley’s school, some girls are, well, one girl I guess really is kind of given her a hard time about, you know, Oh, so you’ve got powers now or whatever, and this girl is. Played by Laura Inez, who went on to do a very long run, uh, on ER. I wouldn’t have recognized her. She was so much younger than, and then one of the other random girls just sitting at the table is Darryl Hannah.

And I kept looking at her like, why do I know that girl? She’s so familiar, and I couldn’t figure it out for the longest time. And finally, apparently for both of these women who went on to have . Big careers. This was their first appearance in a feature film. But, um, so this girl played by Laura ins is, you know, just being your typical mean girl, uh, taunting Ghillean she says something like, you know, prove it.

Read my mind is what she says. And Ghillean basically says something like, I don’t think you really want me to do that. And she’s like, what do you mean, why wouldn’t I want you to do that? And Gillian’s says, well, I don’t think that you would want everybody to know you were pregnant. So the girl freaks out.

She’s like, how did you know that? Ah, um, and she grabs Gilliam by the wrist and Ghillean is visibly upset, and she says, let go, let go, let go. And it’s because this other girl starts bleeding like her nose starts bleeding. And I don’t remember, but this is the side effect of Gillian’s powers, is that I don’t know if she affects the energy around her or what, but for whatever reason, she makes people bleed.

Uh, and later on when she’s talking to the professionals, um, they tell her. That everybody that you come in contact with and one of these episodes is going to bleed. Some people might bleed a little bit, some people might bleed a lot, and that is not. An exaggeration because some of these people like you blood from every orifice when they’re in her presence, and so obviously she’s upset by that and wants to get some answers and also wants to be able to control that, which is what leads her to looking into this Paragon Institute.

I guess.

Todd: Then Peter manages to catch up with this woman named Hester, and we have seen Hester, she was one of the people from the Institute at the school, and it turns out that he knows her. He, she’s like a former girlfriend of his or something like that. I’m really not sure where that relationship came from.

Did they ever explain

Craig: their back? I don’t think they did, but the impression that I got was that he sought her out and that initially it was really just kind of deception. Like he established a relationship with her because he wanted some access to Paragon, and because she worked there, she could be his access, but it also appears that over the course of their relationship.

They really have developed feelings for one another, and he does have. Feelings for her. Um, cause later on, spoiler alert, she dies and he’s sad

and he feels guilty. He feels guilty for getting her involved. He feels like it’s his fault.

Todd: I mean, she’s a pretty young . Person and he’s clearly a lot older and they have, you know, they have this moment in the back of the van where it’s clear they’ve just had sex. You know, it’s this post-coital sitting there.

He’s staring off into space and she’s cuddling up to him. And I was like, ah, I don’t know. I mean, it’s fine, you know, whatever. But he was almost old enough to be her a grant,

Craig: at least.

Todd: At least her dad. And he was Carrie Snawgrass actually. Um, you know, we’ve, we’ve run into her before. She was. Probably most famous, I think, just for having a relationship with Neil young and during one of his kids.

But she did some acting work. She was on TV and some movies, and we have talked about her before because we did a movie called trick or treats a God awful movie. That was all sort of filmed on weekends by this guy. This director is kind of a side project and it was all filmed in her house. Oh, right.

Craig: I had forgotten about that.

Todd: She had a little bit part to play in it, but mostly she just provided the house. So now she kind of comes in the middle that she’s our connection really, because she’s at the Institute and she’s getting to know Ghillean and getting Gillian’s trust at the same time. The Institute is the same place where we find out.

Well, it was pretty obvious that his son, Robin, was taken. And so he’s trying to get back there and figure out what happened to Robin. So she’s the connecting tissue kind of between them and the magnet that is drawing those two, these two stories together, more or less, but it certainly takes a while.

Craig: It does, eh?

Yeah. And, and Ghillean kind of goes to Paragon. On her own. Um, and there she meets a couple of doctors. There’s dr Lindstrom who is, uh, a woman doctor. And then there’s, uh, dr Jim McKeever, who’s played by, uh, Charles Durning, who has. Been in a million things, but I always think of him, he was the mayor in vessel harass in Texas, and he’s hilarious.

And he can sing, but they, she goes there and they’re very nice to her and it seems like a, you know, it’s a nice place. Um, they’re putting her up in this nice, sweet. And they say they’re going to help her and it’s hard to tell, or at least it was hard for me to tell whether or not they were being sincere in their kindness and generosity, or if they had their own personal motives as it, as it turns out, child truss has his thumb on this.

Institute somehow and for some reason, I don’t know. I don’t even know. Does he work for the government? Does he work in some sort of private sector? I could never figure that out. Is he just some rich guy who has interest in this and who can afford to pay hundreds of the likes spies to hang out all the time?

I never really understood who he was or what. Organization he worked for, did you?

Todd: It’s hard to say because I don’t think it’s ever made clear, but my presumption was it had something to do with the CIA because I’m, Peter is a former CIA agent, and so I figured that was their connection with somehow in the CIA and then.

Again, this is just, I think, my mind putting it, you know, trying to fill in the blanks more than anything else. I figured this was part of some offshoot kind of relationship, a part of a CIA kind of telekinesis, psychic program that they might have because he does make some comment later about weaponizing these people, but that’s much later in the movie and it’s never really clear.

Yeah. What’s going to happen? It’s, it’s really just like he’s the bad guy and the Institute, you’re right also comes across as. Being under his thumb.  the Institute itself isn’t necessarily sinister except for the fact that in some way they’re, they are cooperating or had been cooperating with this guy.

But the guy who runs the Institute has serious qualms about it. And right. He and Glen strum have this interesting conversation by the fire where they’re deciding what to do with her and how are they going to protect her. And it’s, it’s funny because I think it’s cute when Gilead comes to the Institute, there’s this.

Almost cliche like montage. Montage. Yeah. Where it’s like she’s having a sleep over here. Yeah. They’re running outside their plague. Frisbee. They’re skipping around. They’re eating. They’re playing video

Craig: games. Yeah. Playing with a dog.

Todd: I had to laugh. That was, that also felt. I don’t want to say out of place.

It just seemed a little silly for something Brian DePalma would do.

Craig: Well, I think what they’re trying to establish is a relationship between Hester and Ghillean primarily, and Hester is trying to get close to her because Peter is interested in her because he believes that she can help him find Robin.

Right. You still don’t know. It’s unclear to us if Robin is even alive. Because they keep saying he’s dead. Um, and at one point, I think it’s after all this happy time, but at one point, um, she’s talking with, uh, dr McKeever and he’s very nice and, and he’s consistently nice to her, but she, either he grabs her or she grabs him.

I think maybe she teeters on the stairs or something. So she grabs him for balance and she has another vision. And it’s a vision of him, dr McKeever chasing Robin through the house and up the staircase that they’re standing on, and when they get to the top of the staircase, Robin backs away from dr McKeever and backs all the way.

Out of the window and she sees him go out the window. It’s on the second story at least. So we don’t even know if he’s dead. And at this point, of course, that makes her suspicious of the Institute and of dr McKeever, as you said, it seems like an unwilling partnership. You know, it just seems like children has the power to make them do whatever he wants them to do.

Um, and it seems like the doctors, especially McKeever, are. Frightened of him, uh, and probably should be in that I, I didn’t notice it in the moment. I didn’t notice it until later, but in that montage, when they’re doing cutesy stuff, there’s a, a scene really where they’re sitting there playing cards or something.

Hester and Gill and. Hester’s like, Oh, wouldn’t it be nice if we had some ice cream Sundays? And like she describes all the topics and then this, like the cook for the Institute comes out with this ridiculous like sundae bar on, on a tray with like every topic you could imagine. And then they proceed to make their Sundays and they use like every topic.

Like they just put everything on it, which is funny in and of itself, but it’s even funnier when you realize. That the cook is large. Marge, did you catch that? No. She’s large. Marge from a Peewee Herman, uh, Oh of it. Her name name’s Alice nun. I didn’t recognize her in that moment, but she is, she sticks around.

She’s there. Um, and I noticed later and I’m like, wait a minute, is that large Marge? I’m like investigating on my computer. Sure enough.

Todd: I thought that film, that scene was so funny because they’re having this conversation, but after awhile you kind of become distracted by these horrifying Sundays that they’re putting together, just to have every little bit on it.

And then at the end of the scene, she talks into the Sunday and like almost vomit. She’s like, this is too much. And I thought, yeah, that’s exactly what I was thinking. I mean, it was really funny. You know, Brian DePalma, uh, as a director, he’s, uh, he’s very much of. On our tour. He got a real Hitchcockian vibe, actually, I think to the way that he films things, and a lot of times it works.

Sometimes it’s distracting, but nobody’s ever going to fault him for not being an excellent director. And every time they film a scene where two people are sitting at a table, he does the same thing in this movie where the camera starts a one part of this tape, one side of this table, and it slowly pans around.

To the other side while they’re talking, and sometimes they’re not done talking. By the time it gets around to the other side, so then it starts kind of slowly sweeping around the other way. And you know, the first one or two times this happened, it started to call attention to itself. And then it seems to happen every single time they film these seeds of two people sitting down at a table talking to the point where it got to the Sunday scene.

I’m like, here we go again. Camera around the table. I didn’t

Craig: notice.

Todd: There were even shades of psycho a little bit. He, he likes to film top down a lot too, just to shake things up a little bit. And that scene where Robin is chased up the stairs and out the window, it’s a sort of top down scene, very reminiscent of the scene of psycho where.

Norman Bates, his character comes out with a knife and pushes someone down the stairs. I always think it’s quite interesting in movies, how windows are so super fragile, right? People never just back out of an open window, which is a lot more realistic like they do. He just backs out, breaks the glass and pains of this window as he goes down.

Craig: At this point, Ghillean just kind of becomes a pawn, like everybody wants her. McKeever wants to. Tell children that any does in fact tell children that, um, she’s a fake. She’s a phony. She doesn’t really have any powers. But then. There’s an incident where Lindstrom is talking to Jillian and Ghillean has these visions of Robin and she sees that he is alive and he’s somewhere where he’s being tested on and like he’s all hooked up to electrodes and computers and all kinds of things.

While she’s in the midst of this vision, she’s also touching Lindstrom and Lidstrom is bleeding like. From everywhere, like from her eyes or ears, her nose, her fingernails,

Todd: light it off.

Craig: It just blood everywhere. I thought that she was dead, but we never see her again. But they say that she’s recovering or something.

So when children. Finds out about that. Then he knows she has power, so he wants her. Meanwhile, Peter is trying to get Hester to sneak a Gilliam out, which she eventually does. Um, and it’s, you know, just kind of this contrived thing where she plays this ruse and she gets Gilly and out, and there’s. A chase down the street, of course, because they’re constantly under surveillance and there’s constantly these guys in suits around and there’s this chase down the street.

Ghillean ends up meeting up with Peter, but Hester, does she get shot or did she get hit by a car? She gets hit by a car, doesn’t she

Todd: hit by a car

Craig: and she’s dead. And then Gilliam and Peter. Get on a bus, like a Greyhound to go to where Robin is because Ghillean knows where he is now and they make a point of saying that Jillian and Peter are psychically connected, but they never explain why.

I don’t understand Robin, right? Yes. Excuse me. Ghillean and Robin, the two psychic young people are psychically connected, but I don’t remember them ever really explaining why

Todd: do you know? They don’t really. They don’t really say anything about it, but before we go on, I think that this scene is really.

Interesting because this whole chase outside happens during the day and it’s all in slow motion. It was a very interesting choice. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this kind of a chase entirely in slow motion go on for so long, but I guess. Maybe it was to distract us from the fact that these guys get away awfully easily.

Like for all the fact that these suits are around and all the stuff, and they’re these cars coming at them and they’re under this constant surveillance. They can just sort of stand out on the street and grieve over Hester for awhile and just leave. After that. I mean, there’s these actions scenes come in and they’re under pressure when it’s convenient for, but then they can just kind of get away and then they’re fine for awhile.

The impression is, given that they’re, all of these people are under constant surveillance. They’re part of this, this really sinister and big program, but they’re able still to move around quite easily when the plot requires it. And also, I wasn’t sure about Robin, was this another D? Was this like.

Children’s is part of the organization pulled that pulled him away from the Paragon Institute?

Craig: Yes. And that, that’s what I was going to say. We’re probably about half an hour from the end now and now we go to the third movie, which is about Robin, and apparently what has happened is they took him from Paragon.

Um, because he had all this power and they have been, um, testing him and training him to hone his abilities. And it’s worked. Like he is, is very much in control of his psychic abilities. But a side effect is that he has become. Very edgy, which I assume is where the title comes from, the fury, like all of a sudden, you know, before when we met him in the beginning, he was this nice kid.

Um, and now he’s just on edge all the time. He’s snapping at people all the time. One of children’s people as this woman, this dark haired woman, and it seems like she and Robin are in like a romantic or sexual relationship. Mm. Which is weird. Uh, cause she seems significantly older than him. He’s so on edge that she tells, this woman, tells Childress I need to take him on a vacation.

He needs some, some rest and some, some time to calm down. And children’s was like, fine, you can take him for one day. Uh, take them around the city, show him the sites, but then you have to come back. So she does, she takes him into downtown Chicago and we see him walking around in this indoor amusement park, which I guess was an actual, uh, establishment in Chicago.

It was directed, I think in 1975 and closed by 1980 and then torn down by 86. So it didn’t last very long, but it was the first. Like indoor amusement park slash shopping mall, and it makes for a really good set piece.

Todd: Yeah, and that’s kind of all it is. I mean, here’s the problem. I think one of the props that this movie is, I feel like we’re supposed to sympathize with Robin in some way,

Craig: but it’s hard too, because he’s a jerk now.

Todd: Yeah. We really haven’t known Rob, except for one scene in the very beginning. We haven’t really seen him again and now we see him again. He’s a total asshole, so you know, it’s hard to feel much sympathy for him. He’s just kind of a loose cannon and he’s walking through this amusement park and this just demonstrates it.

He sees, he sees some Arabs.

Craig: Yeah. Well end. He’s already, he’s already ticked off because he saw his. Girlfriend, I guess whatever she is, he saw her talking to a couple of other friends. Who are they? These are friends of mine from the Institute. And you planning on seeing them later? No, Robin here.

Todd: Which one are you going to screw first?

Craig: So he storms off and he’s all mad and you’re right. He sees some middle Easterners.

Todd: The guys from the middle East and we know he doesn’t like the middle East anymore. They get on this spinning thing, you know, that spins the pie up into the air and there’s another group of them that are sitting in a restaurant like on a second or third story building inside this building that are watching it happen and he makes.

With his psychic powers, he makes it malfunction and the little chair that they’re on fly through the air and through the window into all of the, the group of people. So I, those are just innocent people out. Tried to, at first I thought maybe there was a problem, like maybe these were bad people somehow associated with the Institute, but no, they were just, just tourists.

Yeah. Just tourists that he tried to kill. Maybe killed.

Craig: Right. Maybe killed. I mean, who knows? So he’s an asshole. Yeah. I mean, he’s a jerk, so it’s hard. And like, I thought, well, you know, when his dad finds him, he’ll cause he thinks his dad’s dead too. Like everybody’s lying to him. Everybody’s lying to everybody.

Um, so he thinks his dad is dead. I’m thinking, you know, Peter, we’ll find him. Ghillean will help Peter find him and they’ll rescue him and he’ll. Be rehabilitated somehow. And so that’s what I was expecting to happen. And it seems like that’s going to happen. Ghillean and Peter get to the Institute, Robin is back there and he can sense that Ghillean is around and he thinks that they are bringing her in to replace him.

So he’s angry again and he locks himself in a room with his girlfriend. And levitates her into the air and spins her around and around and around. She dies, doesn’t see,

Todd: it’s a really horrific seed actually. She’s got her bleeding somehow, and as he’s spinning her around, there’s like. Blood splattering on the walls and stuff.

It looks really brutal, but we don’t see like that moment where she dies. We just see her spinning and the blood flying, and then the next time we come in here like and see that we, we know that she’s dead. You know? That’s another interesting thing about this movie is there’s, there’s like so much time goes by and there these car chases and they’re those little moments of comedy and whatever, and then you get these really gory, really horrific scene.

Uh, that just punctuated, uh, every now and then, you know, like, just to compare it with Carrie, like Carrie has one, you know, I mean, there are some things, you know, kind of that happened during Carrie, but it’s all culminating and leading up to the big climax at the end, right? Were Carrie goes ape and, and everybody dies.

This is like. Boom, boom, boom.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Really graphic. So it’s odd he’s going for this tent pole, mainstream kind of jaws killer, which is kind of what he wanted to do with this movie that he makes. It’s so gory.

Craig: And it kind of reminded me of a, a Gallo film, like full cheese, like with the bright red blood and, um, the closeups on people’s eyes as they’re bleeding from their eyes, sockets and stuff.

It had that similar style and, and then so he kills. His girlfriend and Peter and Ghillean are captured by children’s as people, and they’re broad side and Peter wants to be taken to his son, and eventually children’s is like, okay, he’s in there. Yeah, I’ll go see him. So Peter walks in and he doesn’t realize that Robin is levitating above the door.

So he walks right underneath him and then he turns around and sees him. Robin has already killed a couple more guys at this point, and so he turns around and he sees him and he just says, what have they done to you.

I know they told you I was dead. You wanted me out of the way.

I never gave up. I kept looking for you all the time. And then Robin attacks, Peter, which I didn’t even get like, cause this is his dad. They had a great relationship. He thought he was dead. Here he is, but he just immediately attacks him. They both end up going out the window and then Peter ends up like holding on to Robin as Robin is dangling over the ledge of the.

House, and in my mind I’m thinking the dude was just flying. Like, why all of a sudden, why all of a sudden now is this like precarious? Like it’s dangerous. Like he’s hanging here. Why doesn’t he just float? He was just floating. I don’t get that. But anyway, so he’s holding onto him P uh, Peter’s holding onto him, trying to save him.

And Robin reaches up. And like digs his fingernails into his face and like tears in his face. Peter, let’s go. Then Robin falls to the ground and he’s not dead yet. Ghillean goes in like, you know, cradles him and his eyes glow blue, which I think they’ve done before when he’s gotten really upset and then hers glow too, which has never happened before.

And then Robin dies. And then Peter seemingly throws himself off the roof. Yes. And he dies too. And that’s, and that’s the point where I’m like, really? Like this whole movie has been about Peter trying to find his son. He finally does, and then 30 seconds later they’re both dead. Like. Yeah. That it just seemed like such a weird end to that story.

Todd: Yeah. Very unsatisfying. And I mean, I mean, I guess it defies your expectations. Like you said, you’re expecting them to have this reunion and Robin’s like, Oh my gosh, you know, your, uh, your dad, you’re alive. And dad’s like, son, I always knew you were alive. You know, you, you, there would be, and then together, maybe they could do something, but the point is.

Again, the movies, the fury, Robin is just over the edge and he’s uncontrollable and not in control of himself and probably doesn’t even recognize his dad, whatever. Right.

Craig: And that’s it. I mean like

Todd: that is basically it because,

Craig: well, there’s a cap scene.

Todd: There is a cap scene, and I’m going to get to that. I guess what happens is that Robin transfers his powers

Craig: and that’s the impression that I got.

Todd: Yeah. Into Gilliam. So the next morning, uh, Ghillean is in the bed of this place. After all of this children’s comes into the room,

Craig: he comes in and, you know, he’s nice to her and he’s reassuring and he’s like, everybody, you know, was wrong about me. I never had any bad intentions. I just want to help you. You know, I, I wanted to help Robin and, and so he paints himself to be this benevolent guy.

And it seems like she falls for it because, um, she like embraces him and then kisses him. But I guess it was a trick because, uh, his eyes start to bleed and he gets up and he’s blind and he’s stumbling around the room. And, um, then. She blows them up with our mind.

Todd: Yup. He explodes and you get to see it like 10 times because we get from all the different angles. I guess the first time they filmed this scene, it didn’t go quite right and the body parts weren’t flying in the directions they were supposed to. So it took them days to get back to the scene because the room was a big mess.

They had to clean it all up and try it again. But yeah, he explodes in this, again, for a mainstream movie, this is a, I don’t know, I guess it was the 70s, you know, there were things were different then, but, uh, it’s pretty gory.

Craig: Yeah, it is. And that’s just it. I mean, we don’t know what happens to Ghillean. We presume that she has these powers now, and I guess presumably she can control them now.

Um, but you know. Who knows?

Todd: It’s a little unsatisfying because she just met this guy. She didn’t really know this guy. Like this guy wasn’t the one who was really on top of her the whole time. Robin is the one who should have killed him. Yeah. You know, he’s Robin’s mortal enemy and Peter and the two of them just die.

Uh, and it’s just up to her to kind of avenge it for them. So she does, she blows him up. But like her rage, I maybe it’s just a manifestation of. Peter’s rage and Robin’s rage, I guess is like this transference may be kind of transferred a bit of his essence into her as well. And maybe that was, is what was coming out because like I said, from a plot standpoint, from kind of a character development standpoint, for her to be so angry that finally she blows somebody up.

He’s not, the guy would have thought. Would have gotten it. But he deserved to get it cause he is the mastermind apparently behind everything bad that was happening to everybody. So

Craig: exactly.

Todd: But we’re not too sure how or why. So there’s just a lot of unanswered questions and it’s, it’s a little bit like, Oh, okay.

I mean by the time the end of the movie came out, I was like, you, it is. It was an all right movie. You don’t know nothing. Nothing wrong with it. Very well made. Oh, the score. John Williams did the score

Craig: and it’s good. It’s really good. And he wrote it intentionally to try to mimic Hitchcock scores. And it sounds good.

You know, right from the beginning, uh, from the opening credits, you can tell that it’s, it’s going to be a good score and it is.

Todd: Well and I would say it elevates the movie, but honestly, like Bart Brian DePalma elevates the movie. I mean, his camera work is fantastic and the acting is, is for the most part, except for some of these big parts that get a little hammy.

Um, the acting is pretty good. It’s just as a story, it’s just a little boring for awhile because you’re waiting quite a while for it to come together and for these questions to be answered, many questions aren’t answered. And then when it does come together, it’s all kind of at the end. And. It’s over quickly and you’re just kind of scratching your head.

What was the point of this whole journey when it’s all just going to end up in tragedy in about five minutes anyway.

Craig: And you know, Kirk Douglas is good in this movie. He’s a good actor. I’m sure that if we explored outside of the realm of horror, we could find much, much stronger and more compelling, uh, performances.

By him, but you know, this is what we do. Um, so I, I’m sure this is not like his masterpiece. Um, but he is good in it. Uh, with what he’s given his, his character doesn’t have a whole lot of depth. You know, he, he’s kind of one note, you know, he’s got a singular mission and a singular focus. But he’s handsome and charming and, uh, intense in moments.

And so I still say, you know, it’s a good performance. I’m sure not one of his best, but even not at his best. He’s still a talented guy. And I think that, uh, you know, he will be. Mist in Hollywood. He hadn’t worked, um, for quite a long time before his death because he was so advanced in age, but he has 95 acting credits, uh, on his IMDP, a couple of directing credits and some producing credits.

He made a major Mark. He will be remembered in cinema history, I think, probably forever. Uh, and that’s, you know, we wanted to celebrate him and, uh, you know, give him a little sendoff. So that’s what we were doing today. And so then, so we did that, as we often do by kind of crapping on his movie

Todd: was fine.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Why is it that it’s cause it’s horror and some of these people phoned it in and he wasn’t phoning it in. It’s just not the best movie. Yeah. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend. If you like this podcast, you can just find us online by searching two guys at a chainsaw.

You’ll probably run across our YouTube channel as well. We have about half of our episodes up there now, so if you prefer to have YouTube going and listen to us, there’s no visual there just to our faces frozen on the screen, feel free to check that out. We’re trying to build audience there, so if you can subscribe to us there on YouTube, we’d really appreciate it.

Also, if you have any requests, we’re probably going to enter it. Series of requests for the next month. So send us those our way to meet through our Facebook page. You can tweet us now. Two guys, chainsaw is our Twitter handle, and you could also go to our website. Until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.